🔫 Firearms: Everything you wanted to know (and the opportunity to ask if you don't)

Well, not much of a gun owner personally, but I like help out so…here:

Thought that was a vuvuzela for a split-second and thought ‘Damn things ought to be regulated.’

7 Likes

Thanks, the trip was nice. I rode up to a little valley at about 10,000 ft, with a nice clear stream running down through the meadows and flowers. Mosquitoes kept it interesting at dawn and dusk. Both the dog and the horses attempted to murder as as many chipmunks as possible. I saw a bunch of Elk (including two newborn calfs), jackrabbits, prairie dogs, coyotes, and various birds and reptiles. Read a couple of books, and spent a decent amount of the time looking at the stars, and listening to the sounds of the deep forest. Very refreshing experience. I did some shooting as well. I set a 500 yard target out, which was an 8" paper plate. I had a Husqvarna Rifle from the mid-50s, shooting .270 130 gr reloads. I really impressed myself with consistent solid hits. A coyote ran down the slope behind my target, at probably 800 yards, but he was not bothering me, so I did not bother him. I am on the road now, I will look into starting a subheading with collections of cars and other things.

4 Likes

Sorry, did I answer all questions. I skimmed through again but I don’t know if I missed anything. Let me know.

1 Like

Copied from this BB news thread. Felt it was worth adding.

1 Like

That is a helpful diagram. I have some shotguns, but I have never been fully literate on all the different choke types. Off hand, do you know if bore size changes these numbers?

Here’s a question: Why conceal? Since permits for concealment make it sound like a special case, one might think that unconcealed would be the norm. That’s also how other social norms tend to work - if what you have or are doing is legitimate, there is no pressing reason to hide it. So it seems as if maybe there were agenda in the past for de-normalizing the open carry of firearms. Who did this, and why?

1 Like

Oh, man. No idea. I created this thread in part because I know so little about firearms myself. Good bet @Mister44 knows, though.

“Concealed firearm” can mean a lot of things. My wife sometimes keeps one in her purse, as she sometimes leaves the clinic very late at night. If she did that without a permit, it would be illegal. So would be having a gun in your car within reach, but out of sight.
There are some tactical reasons to conceal the fact that you are carrying a firearm. Where I work, we often deal with real security threats. It is a terrible idea to dress like an “operator”. Those are the guys who get shot first. I think that would go for anywhere that a terrorist or criminal might open fire. They are going to shoot the threats first, if they have any sense.
At home, I am in the mountains a lot, and it is sensible to have a firearm. If I am not wearing a day pack, I find it comfortable to use a shoulder holster. If I am wearing a jacket, suddenly I have a concealed gun. I am not hiding it, just carrying it in a protected place, out of the rain, and not likely to get caught on brush. Still, permit required. I have family members who open carry pistols all the time. That is not a problem up in the mountains, but in a city, it can be intimidating. I personally don’t like to do things that make others uncomfortable.

4 Likes

Why conceal? Because people get nervous because they have been conditioned that a person with a gun is either a cop or a bad guy, even though 99%+ of gun owners are neither.

The second reason is if there is someone looking to hurt people, knowing you are armed makes you the first target. It isn’t great tactics.

Indeed among 2nd Amendment supporters, there is a split of opinion on open carry. Sure it should be acceptable, but it often is frowned upon, it is often done in an “in your face” way, and hurts the cause.

I made an analogy, that I have a shirt that says, “Fuck you, you fucking fuck”. I have the right to wear that most places. But I also should expect it to raise some eyebrows.

This bring me to repeat what I have said in the past - that the stigma on guns for many people comes from their unfamiliarity and the completely unrealistic portrayal of guns in popular culture. If car use was portrayed like gun use, you would assume everyone only uses cars for break neck races, screeching the tires constantly, peeling out, and slamming into each other until one runs off the road and blows up.

4 Likes

Shotgun Choke Yardage Shotgun Choke Restriction
(Diameter difference between bore and shotgun choke)

Cylinder < 20 0
Skeet 22.5 .005 of an inch
Improved Cylinder 25 .010
Light Modified 30 .015
Modified 32.5 .020
Improved Modified 35 .025
Light Full 37.5 .030
Full 40 or More .035
Extra Full 40 or More .040

1 Like

I think the smaller bore usually means less pellets, but he general pattern size is still the same. Pattern size definitely varies by shotgun and by ammo used, it can vary quite a bit as well, the above chart is a nice rule of thumb.

Also when it comes to people and police if they are using 00-buckshot then you are only talking about 8-9 pellets so one stray can significantly increase the pattern size.

re: why conceal
-carrying open can make you a target (attack that person to get their gun)
-carrying open you lose the element of surprise
-carrying open is not the social norm now and hasn’t been for quite some time in much of America
-carrying open you would want a retention holster (a holster that keeps the gun in place unless you release the mechanism) these are big and bulky. Police officers use them, civilians generally don’t

1 Like

The choke is what determines the size of the pattern or how far the shot spreads. So for example I was curious what 00 Buck shot looks like at the length of my hallway, and it turns out to be about a 6" spread in my shot gun. But had I used birdshot, the spread would have been the same. The shot doesn’t effect the spread, the shot affects how likely you are to hit your target - and if you are hunting - kill your target.

Which is why you would use bird shot for birds, not buck shot. They are fast moving, flying, and you need an area of effect, if you will. The smaller the shot, the more pellets, the more likely you will hit the clay pigeon or quail. For bigger birds like ducks or goose or pheasant you need bigger shot. So for goose, who are notoriously tough, one might use 1 shot, or even larger, called BB, BBB, and T shot.

Same with larger game like deer. You would never shoot a deer with anything less than buck shot, and many people use slugs, vs shot at all.

Defense wise bucks shot and slugs are the only acceptable rounds, as bird shot, even though the pattern is the same, will have much less energy and much less penetration.

As for the bore - or gauge, there are various sizes, 12 and 20 is the most common. The smaller the number, the larger the shell. 10 and 16 gauge are uncommon but still used today.

A gauge is an archaic measuring system. I will just c/p from wiki - “Gauge is determined from the weight of a solid sphere of lead that will fit the bore of the firearm, and is expressed as the multiplicative inverse of the sphere’s weight as a fraction of a pound, e.g., a one-twelfth pound ball fits a 12-gauge bore. Thus there are twelve 12-gauge balls per pound, etc.”

So a 20 gauge shell loaded with 7 shot will be identical to a 12 gauge shell loaded with 7 shot except 1) the powder charge will be less and 2) the amount of shot is usually less. So this means two things, 1) Less energy applied to the payload (shot) so milder recoil but also less muzzle velocity, and 2) because you can’t physically cram as many pellets into the same space, you have less pellets in the pattern. BUT the pattern should be more or less the same as the 12 gauge if they both have the same choke. The effective range is a little less too, but still quite fine for skeet shooting or small game like quail.

One more oddity is the .410. Some people call it .410 gauge, but the .410 is the CALIBER, or diameter of the slug. It too can use a any sort of bird shot. One of my favorite old guns my dad recently sold was a .410/22lr combo which was an made as very versatile farm pest control gun. Great for rats, squirrels, crows, rabbits, etc.

If you are doing hand thrown or those smaller mechanically thrown clay pigeon shooting (they are slower than the fancy machines at a skeet range) you can impresses old farmers by hitting the clays with your .410 pump that they missed with their 12 gauge.

Shot sizes.

Shot gun shell sizes.

3 Likes

From

Re:

Yes - it does! First off, it isn’t a scope, it is a red dot sight. A scope MAGNIFIES, and has the cross hairs you are probably familiar with.

A red dot projects a little glowing dot on the target in the view finder. Note I say in the view finder, this doesn’t project an actual dot on the target like a laser pointer/laser sight.

Scopes on pistols are rare, but you can find them, usually 4x or so, on people doing long range shooting with them especially hunting. Larger bore hand guns like a .357 mag or a .44 mag make good hunting tools inside of 50 or 100 yards.

But a red dot makes any gun way easier to shoot. Traditional iron sights you have to align the back sight and front sight both horizontally and vertically. Depending on how bad your eye sight is, this can get hard to do. It gives you a good advantage target shooting and makes aiming way more consistent… If I pull a shot left with the red dot, I know that it was ME who pulled it left. Vs with iron sights I might doubt that I had perfect sight alignment.

For rapid fire, red dots are #1. That is why the top shooters in the top classes of USPSA and other action sports use them (albeit smaller versions) on their open class pistols. The ability to shoot and reacquire a good sight picture is much easier with a red dot.

I have two red dots, on on the .44 and one on my .22lr which is set up for one handed Bullseye style shooting. Both are the Japanese made Ultradot Match Dot. These are the goto red dot for bullseye shooters, and I am a bit surprised they aren’t used for more sport. This one allows you to adjust not just the brightness (which they all do), but the size of the dot.

4 Likes

And - if you did that - you just committed a Federal Felony converting your pistol into a Short Barreled Rifle, thanks to the 1934 NFA.

So don’t do that.

There are a hand full of guns classified as Curios and Relics like the Luger Artillery model which I believe is immune to this. Theis Luger had a longer barrel and allowed you to attache the holster to the back as a stock. It also has a weird rotary magazine option that held a lot more ammo (I want to say 50 rnds, but don’t quote me.)

4 Likes

Yes i did forget about that particular ban (with the exception on old guns in the collector’s market). But long range shooting with a handgun would make more sense with a shoulder stock but shame it’s not a thing in the US as i like the concept.

1 Like

It is a thing. They make kits that turn like a glock into a carbine.

You just have to pay a $200 tax stamp and wait 6-9mo for the paper work to clear.

Or you can buy it, keep it in the box, and wait for the collapse of the government and then you can do what you want.

To highlight how even sillier the SBR rifle laws are, you can get an AR15 registered as a pistol, with a short barrel, and a Sig Brace or similar tool that allows you to attach it to your forearm for stability. Just DON’T shoulder it.

Or, you know, just hack saw off the end of your barrel if you want to use it in a crime (which rifles rarely are.)

The NFA was passed to fight the violence risen from prohibition. People like Bonnie and Clyde would cut down shot guns and rifles to make them easier to hide under a long coat and wield inside a car. The law of course didn’t stop criminals from still using them, just added another charge to killing people and robbing banks, etc.

3 Likes

Another feature of a low powered scope on a pistol or rifle (1x, 1.5x or 2x) is that even if you aren’t benefiting much from the magnification, the lens on the scope is gathering light, just as the lens on your eye does (or a camera if you are into photography). A scope with a larger lens is gathering more light and even at 1x may still yield a much more clear picture for you than the naked eye alone, particularly in poor light conditions (cloud cover, shade, distinguishing antlers from branches, etc). This allows for better target identification and shot placement.

If you are aiming at a well lit and well defined shape (paper targets at the shooting range), you won’t need that benefit, but in the field with variable conditions in flux stalking a live target, it can make a big difference.

4 Likes

Thanks! It’s not often I get asked to expand my fantasy booking for the Bullet Club.
Would you like a history of Gallows, Anderson and Devitt/Balor’s work before coming to the WWE or you want me to take things from where they are, with Gallows and Anderson in the upper mid-card and Balor rehabbing after shoulder surgery, post his Universal Title win?

2 Likes

It is a throw back design. Like people making 8bit or 16 bit styled video games today. Or people riding and old direct chain bike with a banana seat, instead of some titanium alloy 28 speed. Or watching Star Wars on VHS, vs the HD version.

The percussion cap revolver is from ~the 1830s to the late 1800s.

So this is taking the old tech and styling, but has the added advantage of strong, modern steel, not being an antique you are afraid to shoot for safety and value reasons, and some added safety features.

Don’t be, the Western was alive and well in the 70s and old black power, single action pistols, and lever actions were as popular as ever.

Yep. Even worse was the old school flintlocks like in the Revolutionary War time. It is where we get the term “flash in the pan”. They had a pan of gunpowder that would some times ignite, but fail to ignite the powder in side the musket. So you got a flash, but no bang. This is one reason why they used the tactics to shoot in volleys.

I wouldn’t either, but you can clean like Glocks and other similar guns in the dishwasher fine.

2 Likes