French Polynesia says it didn't renew its deal with the Seasteaders, a group of libertarian separatists

Originally published at:

After I read In the beginning was the command line, it occurred to me that nothing about government requires there to be a user interface. To be sure, maintaining the illusion of democracy requires some ritual machinary, but the actual governing itself can chug along quite nicely without it.

When libertarians try to run with their ideas, its educational to see the kinds of things they forget. It’s as if they saw a drone flying by itself, and thus concluded that airplanes don’t need controls.


Libertarianism as a cargo cult. Interesting concept.


I’m pretty certain this isn’t so much “forgot” as it turns out there’s a not-at-all surprising lack of interest in the desperately hard work of actually forging a new civilization.

Forging a new civilization is generally done by the poor and the desperate, who have very little to lose except their lives (and will lose those more often than not). Let’s just say that there aren’t a lot of Libertarians drawn from those ranks.


That would depend on the type of libertarianism.


The buzz-phrase that stood out in this account, was, “contract-driven”, as if conventional governments make any serious effort to to honor the contracts they make with their citizens!


Yes they do, by and large. In correlation with their adherence to the rule of law.

The point of contracts is that the other party enters into it voluntarily. I.e. the state contracts for stuff it can’t obtain by decree. If the state were in a habit to renege on its contracts, nobody would enter into them and the state would be deprived of this option. Which covers everything from state employees, through armament purchases, to debt financing.


i think in the context of seasteaders, the libertarian strain the convo refers to is undoubtedly the rich-white-boy ilk who might yell “you are violating NAP.”


I know, but I like the fact that the only libertarian mini-state that has shown itself to have any ability to function is socialist, and they did it in a warzone.

I think that says everything you need to know about libertarian capitalism.


i think the perspectives of rojava and, say, the zappatistas, are invaluable to how anacho-socialist organization can exist and resist against the imperialist-capitalist forces that seek to stamp them out, i think we do nothing if we try to group them with the randian/koch brothers brand of american “market” centric libertarianism, which i think the seasteading movement is a descendant of.


I’ve always wondered about the part where if a large corporation poops in your upstream water, I gather that you’re suppose to take them to court.

Never mind that large corporations can afford large legal armies, expert witness auxiliaries, and a pay chest to keep them in the field for years.

What I’m wondering about is:

  • Who appoints the judges?
  • Who writes the laws?
  • How do the judges enforce their verdicts?

The alternative settlement method seems to be that you strap on your guns, gather your like-minded neighbors who will all act rationally for your common good … and get gunned down by the well-armed gang that the corporation also has on the payroll.



That wasn’t my intention, I was trying to point out that libertarian capitalism has failed to get the nation state that it wants despite repeated attempts over the last 60 years, and maybe libertarianism only actually works if it is socialist.


Earlier report here:

In another report,

[Institute spokesperson] Mr Collins… says to build floating islands, the lagoon needs to have a certain minimum depth and their location is linked to access to good internet connections, which he says aren’t available in some outer islands.

So the goals of the Sea-Steading movement have shrunk to “large houseboat, close to land, with someone else providing the infrastructure and the workforce.”


You know what else they forgot? The South Pacific does get typhoons, and you’re on a floating island - in other words, a raft.



They’re not without options.

-Form an army and defend their paradise country.
-Go to court.

But those would require government.

If they could get all of their citizens to agree to fund (sorts like taxes) a huge bribe or hire some sort of dirtywater mercenary organization they might hold their territory. At least until either the mercs or pols got paid and then took it back anyway.

But they won’t learn. That would require the humility to admit that you didn’t do it all by yourself.




Well that is just bizarre. It doesn’t seem that the French Polynesians are super keen on have a bunch of libertarians anchored amongst them, and didn’t mail off the notice to renew. Why would that be I wonder? Wouldn’t you want a bunch of libertarians renting your yard? Why on earth not? What reason could there possibly be?


Well I’m gonna to go then! And I don’t need any of this. I don’t need this stuff, and I don’t need you. I don’t need anything. Except this.
[picks up an ashtray]
And that’s the only thing I need is this. I don’t need this or this. Just this ashtray… And this paddle game. - The ashtray and the paddle game and that’s all I need… And this remote control. - The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that’s all I need… And these matches. - The ashtray, and these matches, and the remote control, and the paddle ball… And this lamp. - The ashtray, this paddle game, and the remote control, and the lamp, and that’s all I need. And that’s all I need too. I don’t need one other thing, not one… I need this. - The paddle game and the chair, and the remote control, and the matches for sure. Well what are you looking at? What do you think I’m some kind of a jerk or something! - And this. That’s all I need.


That’s generally what happens when rich white people take a look around their brand new private island and realize nobody there wants to do the housecleaning.