Game platform Steam set to ban sexy toons

The attitude that corporations can be exempted from moral considerations because it might hurt their bottom line is among the most pernicious aspects of modern capitalism.

It’s precisely that logic that allowed Martin Shkreli to shove the price of critical medication up through the roof while the law sat idle and sundry influential people said “Oh, but a private business can charge what they like for their product!”

The belief that the right to profit trumps the duty to behave ethically is a damning indictment of our society.

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I don’t see @beschizza or any of the commenters above saying anything about how this isn’t within Valve’s rights. I see some happiness with the move and much criticism of the effectiveness and potential inequity. But no calls for anybody to force Valve to do anything.
Criticism is allowed.

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I decided to check out a “maid cafe” in Akihabara once. It was creepy as hell and I couldn’t even enjoy it ironically. The front desk woman acting like a kid whose ice cream fell on the ground as I walked back out didn’t help. “Owwww you don’t like mweeee?” shudder

Ended up noping out before I reached the podium to be seated to go play in the giant Sega arcade.

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Yeah, but “ethically” here is covering a lot of ground: there’s the ethics of imposing norms via arbitrary censorship, and there’s the ethics of imposing norms via commodification of the male gaze. For every thoughtful celebration of queer life, there’s about 30 shovelware rape sims, this is a basic quality of life issue for people trying to find the thoughtful stuff amid a glut of predictable slop.

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Sure, they can do whatever they want. It’s their sandbox.

By complaining about the way they write, implement and enforce their rules, maybe they will hear those complaints and change them to be more egalitarian. I don’t see this as a censorship complaint.

I don’t see the problem here.

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Not all manga styles are the cutesy type, it’s just what it seems Americans like the most. It’s sad since there’s plenty of great art in manga whether or not it’s pornographic. It’s one thing that irks me since it leads to homogeneous presentation of a whole class of art.

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My Japanese friend recommended I go on my first trip to Tokyo. Possibly went to the same one, “Maidreamin’”.

It was weird, sure. More lame. Westerners think they are something they aren’t sometimes.

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‘whining’ is a perfectly healthy part of the process. Everybody who is taking part in the ‘walled garden’ has a stake in the choices that the owner makes, and while the owner actually makes the decision, the rest of us should make our opinions known. How else will the owners be able to understand issues with what they are doing. Like in this case- some content is genuinely squicky, the ban is overreaching, complaints from the public give them info to fine-tune their filters.

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The problem is that who’s morals are we going to impose? E.g. in Japan none of the stuff that was subject of the article is even questionable. In other places it is considered pornography and perhaps illegal. Keep in mind that Valve is a global company.

The discussion is not about exempting companies from having to behave in a civil manner but about letting them run their business. If every decision about their core product is going to be scrutinized and subjected to some “moral consideration” (again, against who’s morals), nobody would be able to do anything because there would be always some outraged and loud outsider against it.

The Shkelli’s case is a really poor analogy. What he has done has a different name - usury and extortion. He knew well that the product is life saving and thus people will pay even the inflated price (nobody wants their kid or relative to die, right?). Valve isn’t doing anything of the sort, so please, tone down the moral panic.

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I don’t see @beschizza or any of the commenters above saying anything about how this isn’t within Valve’s rights. I see some happiness with the move and much criticism of the effectiveness and potential inequity. But no calls for anybody to force Valve to do anything.
Criticism is allowed.

But constructive and valid criticism. Not equating Valve exercising their right to decide which content they want or don’t want to host with enabling of e.g. child porn or, possibly, censoring sexual or political minorities in the future, as has been alluded to. That was the “BS” part.

Complaining would be perfectly the right thing to do for the authors of the impacted products - they have a business relationship with Valve about that content. And I am sure they have done it and their voice has been heard.

On the other hand, random people that have no business with neither Valve nor the authors of the affected software going into a moral panic over “censorship” based on some poorly informed piece of news is crossing the line into pointless whining.

This was actually my first thought as well. Usually when something like this happens these days, it’s because a company got a letter from a Chinese regulator, did some soul-searching, and eventually decided, “nope, China gives us too much money to favor this weird niche over their prudish regulations.” And out it goes.

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I wish they were removed for being bad games, because most of them really are. Instead, it’s some nebulous reason, because Steam refuses to do any kind of quality control that might require more than ten minutes’ work.

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The way other companies handle this is by limiting what content you can purchase by what your stated location or language is. Flip your account over to Japan/Japanese, and you can buy all the Japanese games. Valve could have its cake and eat it too.

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Bad games are all over Steam (as well as Origin and GoG. Only Battle.net is exempt from that.) And why not? Bad games sometimes bring in money, too. There are the Reviews and the Forums to let people know which games are bad.

For the record, I would support Valve doing this. If criticism is valid, so is support.

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Even the Supreme Court has had difficulty with that task.

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It’s been too long since we had a good ethics in games journalism talk.

I can’t wait to see how this goes. /s

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Nor is it consistent or transparent. At least one of the games now being targeted apparently went to great efforts to make sure Valve was aware of all the game’s content before being put on sale there. It was approved. Now, suddenly, it’s not OK, because the standards have been changed. Except that Valve won’t tell anyone what the standards are. (And whatever they are, they don’t apply to games like The Witcher.) Hugely problematic.

But what are the rules? They’ve changed them. More importantly, they’re also secret. Probably because they’re not consistent (they’re being applied to some games but not others with identical - or more explicit - content). Valve also have a near-monopoly on PC game distribution - they’re the largest storefront by orders of magnitude; there are no real competitors, and the nature of such services is that it’s very difficult to compete with them (users don’t want to install multiple store clients and set up multiple accounts). They have a duty to both customers and vendors to have a consistent, transparent set of rules at the very least, and should absolutely face criticism if they don’t.

Violent content, which is Valve’s bread and butter, is illegal in some countries. There are, therefore, already regional blocks on some content. (Not that issues of legality are behind this current kerfuffle. Pornographic content was already banned from the service.)

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Sounds like Steam is backing off their stance and re-thinking their position.

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So I think the comments have already more or less made it clear that no matter how this argument is cut, the solutions will be problematic, and no one solution is going to be satisfactory to everyone.

Freedom of speech is a valid point, as is the question of who gets to decide what is and is not art. I don’t think very many of us would want to ban pornography, but then there remains the question of how the games treat women, which is sometimes deeply entitled and misogynistic, and other times the capacity for harm is questionable.

The problem is that those determinations are hard to make. For instance, “fan service” is par for course for even pretty mundane games in Japan, and nobody bats an eye at it, but Japan is also struggling with some serious issues regarding gender equality so just because it’s okay by their standards, doesn’t necessarily mean it’s “OK” objectively, and that’s not really relevant to standards elsewhere in the world. We don’t look at child brides in other parts of the world and say, “oh, that’s okay, that’s just their culture” because the practice is universally hurtful to the people.

We probably can’t lump all the same games in together. Many years ago when I fancied myself a funny person, I would write comedic reviews of various Japanese dating sim games. There was a pretty clear dichotomy present and you could tell which ones were meant to be considered satire, which were easy to poke fun at because they were already making fun of the absurdity of their own genre. The games that I couldn’t review (or get through) were the ones where it was obvious the creators were not being satirical, and the games were meant to pander to some pretty dark urges. There’s just nothing funny there, and games like that were a big part of why I made my departure from that particular area of writing.

Then there’s the problem of a lot of Japanese media sexualizing teenagers or younger. That’s a problem too, but it isn’t the same thing as actual child pornography. Child pornography necessarily requires the abuse of an actual child. Drawn depictions are problematic too, but we can’t consider them equal because one of them is a depiction of actual abuse, while the other is something that someone has imagined. However disturbing it might be, it still didn’t happen.

And that’s just talking about the cross-cultural problems. The TRP crowd from in the US and various places in Europe have latched on to these formats and artistic styles. This is probably because many of them already have a predilection toward those styles from consumption of other media, but also because it’s useful to them as a sort of camouflage. They’re co-opting another culture’s norms and artistic style to act as a sort of cover for the fact that they’re not Japanese, and the things they’re creating exist almost exclusively for misogynistic purposes. The hope is that people will simply dismiss it as “yet another weird Japanese game” when in reality what they are creating are generally what amount to misogyny “training” and straight up rape simulators.

When it comes to Steam’s decision, I don’t know if it’s correct, too narrow, or too broad. I haven’t gone sifting through Steam for games with sexual content and evaluated them, so I’m going only off the the Steam-agnostic things that I know. There are games that have sexual content peripherally though, and other games with large collections of mods to add sexual content to games that didn’t have it. I find a lot of Japanese popular culture to be problematic because of their depictions of women and children. I also think that’s a separate problem from non-Japanese developers co-opting those problematic elements and amplifying them for the purposes of catering to/training new misogynists, and as a way to make games whose entire point is sexual violence.

I guess my point is that this is a complicated problem and I don’t know the correct answer. The only thing that I can really be sure of is it’s Steam’s platform, so they kind of get to do what they want, and that this problem is way, way, way bigger than Steam or Valve or video games themselves.

That, and I really fucking wish the misogyny would stop. It’s everywhere, in everything, oftentimes even in things that are making some effort not to be misogynistic or sexist, etc. Things cannot stay this way. We endanger the entirety of our species and planet by allowing them to be this way. I think that’s what the people fail to understand. These divisions are infinitesimally small compared to the odds against us surviving even just another thousand years. If more people could see that, if they could see how terrifyingly small humans are, and how we are literally the only thing in that universe that gives a shit whether or not we survive, maybe they’d stop focusing on things like gender, sexuality, and politics, and instead work to help us all survive.

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