Gamer culture is so toxic that "being candid in public is dangerous" for developers

Yeah they’re definitely out there but tend to be outliers most of the time. Point and click adventure games can successfully give a gamer a very immersive and compelling gaming experience with little to no violence, the plot moved along based on your interactions with others, your choice of words, and actions. Or sim games where the focus is on creative building and asset management. There’s puzzle games, visual novels, etc, etc.

Biggest games of the past few years? GTA, Call of Duty, Fallout, and more. Games that focus on absolute power trips and violence, which i will be the first to admit i enjoy them but i do wish to see more creative story telling in games that doesn’t use violence as a cheap way to make it fun.

The biggest games (and all media) are tentpoles propped up by stereotypes. My favorite games in terms of immersion don’t away from violence, but give it gravity like This War of Mine. And games where violence has appropriate weight have been huge the past few years like Undertale, and many non-violent games got a big response like Stardew Valley and The Witness.

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Stardew Valley is really great, i’m patiently waiting for the co-op update so i can play with friends

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Nutpicking. Never seen that used before, but I like it.

The fall version of cherry picking perhaps. Or, selecting those who are the most nuts.

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I debated bringing this up, but I think it’s worth discussing:



This is a conversation about Dean Takahashi’s cuphead video:


Dean Takahashi is an infamously poor journalist in the industry. He’s someone that gave Mass Effect a low score because he didn’t realize you could upgrade your squad, and who has accused Warhammer 40K of ripping off Gears of War. This playthrough is also… well it’s a level of competence that I would see from my parents playing a game and not someone who has been on the beat playing games for decades. It’s something that was immediately defended and attached to this thread of how bad gamers are because they don’t respect professionals, but the threads immediately lept to defending Dean Takahashi and deriding Jim Sterling basically solely because one works for a corporation and the other is on YouTube and a personal site.

In my opinion, Dean’s worth digging into (not the level of shit he gets because again, gamers are in fact toxic as hell). I also think he’s a victim of the extremes that games journalism must go to which are the same as any corporate media but with no “golden period” where journalism required subscription and that came with an expectation of quality. Games Journalism was always a method for the industry to make more money by charging its customers for the only ways to get past parts of games (which hit its peak in the 2000s with things like FF guides costing $30 and being a hard requirement to get the full story of a game). So while Dean playing Cuphead like he has never played a video game before is probably more likely due to the 5-6 articles he has to publish a day while maintaining a social media presence and schmoozing publishers for access and less to do with actual ability. He was probably more concerned with his gear capturing the video as a decent frame rate in his window that his could capture during knowing that he has to get somewhere else to keep his Gamescom schedule. So the real flaw is in the industry, and industry simultaneously barraged by toxic gamers who also refuse to support quality journalism or even pay for games (the f2p market is driven by a refusal to even pay a few dollars for smaller games).

Now, what they really wanted to talk about is this:
https://twitter.com/MrDrMedicman/status/912375113713979393

Which is referring to Polygon’s Doom cold 30 minutes of gameplay done on easy by Arthur Gies on a console:

Now this video got infinitely more shit and the gameplay is bad but leagues above the Cuphead gameplay. I suspect the 2016 election meant the GGers have moved their impotent rage onto something else, as well as Polygon inciting a special level of political rage from gamers for their coverage. Even in the well-meaning reaction videos to this Doom gameplay you will see comments or hear the video mention that they would be more forgiving to anyone except Polygon and it seems that sentiment is absolutely true.

I don’t have an issue with this gamepay, it’s obviously playing cold with a controller when the guy is probably used to a different controller or a mouse and keyboard. I’ve also heard a lot of people complain about switching gun requiring the right bumper on a controller which means it’s super awkward to control the rapid gun switching you see at high level Doom play. What’s more is that Arthur said on Twitter that his gameplay was fine and not very good, and I think that he tried to show the game’s mechanics for melee kills and capturing the animated scenes without moving and focusing on the game’s cut scenes.

I also know Arthur was explicitly targeted because he purposely lowered Bayonetta’s score because the hyper sexualization of the main character, so the group that actively harasses people already were analyzing everything he did and trying to incite the mob before this video.

A long rant, and it doesn’t even have a point. But I thought it was at least an interesting side to the conversation showing that the industry tends to circle the wagons quickly and universally defend itself over something as simple as video games (which I know is a very passionate subject for many) which is sort of the default of all industries. Not a criticism of what Charles’ point, which I feel my posts illustrates - just the same refusal to look inward at all that really grips many passionate conversations.

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I´m a Jim Sterling supporter myself. He is definitely not anti-developer in his approach, he just calls out shady and outright scummy business practices, and there are not nearly enough people doing that. He can do it because he is not directly financially dependent on the industry and if he really makes 10k a month from it, good for him. He also calls out toxic gamer culture btw.

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FTFY.

five - there that’s makes nine.

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I generally look at the score first for a review of a game so i have a point of reference, and then i double back and read their thoughts. I much prefer reviews that have no score though because the reviewer’s thoughts should (theoretically) be given more consideration to determine what they think and where they’re coming from. I’ve read reviews i disagreed with but still got some good insight out of, but it seems that most gamers want reviewers to serve as echo chambers for what they themselves think or want to hear. If someone says something different they go ballistic, i would expect that from a 5 year old but not from a grown person.

In the end i try not to give reviews too much weight, i just keep an eye out from general impressions from different sources to determine where the truth lies though ultimately some games you just have to try out yourself.

And for Cuphead i do recall hearing of some problems with the game, but i’m still interested in it. I might not get it when it comes out but i do intend to eventually buy it.

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It’s funny you mention that one. I thought of it yesterday, but didn’t feel like coming back and adding it to the list. It seems to be fairly popular; I played the demo, but couldn’t figure it out.

I 100% agree with this. If I’m looking at buying a game, I want to see a few opinions on it and maybe watch some gameplay.

I will say, I would like the big review sites to be more honest about games that are broken on launch. It’s absolutely an area where a lot of reviews parrot the publisher and more and more dropping frames, suppressed frame rates, game breaking glitches (common ones at that), etc. at day 1 are common and many are not fixed for a long time. I also wish more reviewers discussed patches and fixes, because some of them are absolutely amazing or debilitating.

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I’ve started working on a game over the weekends. It’ll take a few years to complete but it’s satisfying, the entire process of it.

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  • a majority of your fandom can be fine, and you can still have a toxic fandom. Even if 95% of your fans are basically okay, that’s cold comfort when you feel like you can’t stay in your own home because the rape/murder threats have started to include your address
  • I won’t take nearly as much abuse as some other devs, because I’m cis-male. Being straight and white also help.
  • Regarding games criticism, especially of the youtube variety - it’s a lot easier to make something that seems smart and funny when you’re tearing a game apart than when you’re gushing over it. A hate review can be genuinely fun. But I think that has maybe morphed into lots of people wanting to shit on games to score points. In some ways its reminiscent of social media pile-ons, where everybody wants to get their licks in, and to be noticed you have to be even harsher than the other hundred thousand people who are doing the same thing
  • Are we (game devs) responsible for the current state of affairs? I think the answer has to be at least partly yes. The strong trend over the last 30-40 years of almost exclusively pursuing the male 18 to 35 demographic can’t have been healthy. Also, selling wish-fulfillment power fantasies has had the twin effects of attracting a specific base, and indulging some of their least mature impulses

I don’t think games are inherently bad, but it’s not the healthiest ecosystem right now

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The demo isn’t terribly helpful, and KSP requires you to learn a fair bit about real orbital mechanics if you want to get beyond just watching things explode.

Massive depth once you get into it, though. KSP kept me busy for the year I was sick and housebound, and the online Kerbal community is exceptionally friendly and helpful by gamer standards.

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It’s funny how certain games resonate with various people. I really like Mount & Blade, but none of my friends care for it.

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That game sucked me in; but left me kind of depressed.

Partially because, being a little bit of a completionist and (obviously, how could you side with Joja Corp?) pursuing bundles, I realized that “To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven” actually involves less serenity and more painstaking project management so that I can be present, with sufficient energy, on a rainy day between 12 and 2 during the fall so that I don’t need to wait an entire year to get that walleye. (“But that’s a whole 'nother year!” “It’s only one more season; and the harvest is when I need you the most…”)

Mostly because, while it is far from being a prosaic bullet-strewn power fantasy; I can’t really shake the impression that a video game where my avatar builds a fulfilling life around social ties and productive activity in an idyllic setting(albeit one with a number of darkish patches alluded to) is actually notably less realistic than a standard power fantasy where I death the other guy more often than I get deathed for no terribly compelling reason. I know that if I actually quit perma-temping for Joja Corp and moved to Stardew Valley; I’d be miserable.

I figured out pretty quickly that i was just not going to be able to do everything and collect all the things, so i did the ones i could or the ones that interested me the most. I hope that being able to play with friends will make it easier to play, hope they add more content too :slight_smile:

Actually, I find things seem to become intolerable when 99.8% of the fandom are reasonable people. Two in a thousand is more than enough to destroy the worth of a community for most people. It’s why almost it’s almost impossible to find a “safe” community of any size.

It’s also why people can get pretty upset when they feel they’re being (loosely) held responsible for behaviour of people they almost never encounter and condemn those rare occasions that they do witness it. Yet those 2 in 1000 can, with a little diligence, send something personal and hateful to half the community once a month, every single month (at 10 emails/tweets/whatevers a day).

It takes very little to disrupt a community - just think of how every so often we have had one single madman fill an entire city with terror, except writ small.

I’ve got a similar experience, but on the other hand I’m a guy. When I come across those people (almost inevitably in TF2 or CS:GO/CS:S) they’re almost inevitably just the stereotypical 13 year old kid who’s fixed with a swift mute. The adult trollies are all about the micspam these days, which is a different issue.

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