"Good guys" with guns cause panic, delay investigation into Walmart shooting

I’m anti gun but this article is a stretch.

If only everyone would completely pacify themselves, it would make it so much easier for the authorities to figure out who the criminals are. How can we tell who is good and who is bad when both good and bad people have guns?

Furthermore, as soon as a police officer approaches within 50 yards of a law abiding citizen, the civilian should immediately lie on the ground and handcuff themselves until the officer determines they’re not a threat. Failure to do this makes it much harder for the police to distinguish between law-abiding citizens and criminals.

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More than 100 police officers were killed in Rio de Janeiro this year, most off dutty. These are professional, trained, gun carriers.

What makes regular people think they can do better?

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  1. Many cops have average to sub-average gun skills. Some cops are “gun guys” and do lots of training, others do just the minimum.

  2. The point isn’t to do it better than cops, the point is to do it better than if they were unarmed.

  3. Per your example, a lot of those deaths are from ambushes. The most trained person can’t win in a well planned ambush.

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I am willing to bet that when it comes to saving your own life, options are better than no options regardless of who is better trained in CQB, you or the cops that show up 20 minutes after the fact.

Can you point to any peer-reviewed studies concluding that people who are armed are less likely to become victims of violent crime than people who are unarmed?

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It’s not real firearms training without an NCO behind you, with a rifle-butt at the ready.

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I imagine you think most roberies are announced several hours in advance?

They are all ambushes. And you go a long way assuming they are badly trained. If you are a cop in Rio you probably deal with real gun-involving incidents much more than anywhere else.

You need to exclude the outliers: badly trained cops and highly trained civilians are off the curve.

I don’t see any allegation that those people drawing guns had any negative effect besides confusing police after the incident was already over. No lives were lost as a result of these actions.

I don’t think you’re going to find a lot of pro-self-defense people (outside of incorrigible racists) who think that shooting was OK in any way. You’ve got a real strawman on your hands there.

Barney, put that bullet back in your pocket! /Andy_Griffith_Voice :rofl:

I’ve taken firearms training in two different states to meet the requirement of CCW. Two different training schools, different instructors, etc. Both instructors were current or former police officers. Of the certain numbers of hours required by law, I’d say at least 1/2 of the classroom time was spent explaining what was legal self-defense and the gray areas where you get yourself into trouble legally and physically. We went through each state’s CCW law page by page. Both trainers emphasized that even if you think you are doing everything right you can still be arrested (and convicted) or mistaken for a bad person and shot. They both explained how you own the bullet and everything it does after it leaves the barrel of your gun. This is responsible gun ownership.

There are some Yosemite Sams out there, sure. Just like there are people that are extremely careless when it comes to electronic devices while driving a car. I’m much more concerned about sloppy car driving than trigger-happy citizens.

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Considering that guns kill just as many people as cars these days, I’m way more worried about the people who support an industry that is actively resisting any attempts to do anything to address the problem.

(Hint: it’s not bad drivers.)

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If you want my vote to outlaw the NRA, you got it.

True, in the US the overall death rate from firearms is close to motor vehicles. But over half of those gun deaths are suicides.

Gun crime and gun deaths are definitely a problem in this country. I highly doubt we will see leadership in this area from Lord Tan Dump or anyone else in the GOP during the rest of his last term.

I dont need a peer review study. I have a personal experience to draw uppon. I was almost a victim of a car jacking and a pistol held off the 3 men that were assaulting me. No pistol and I would probably not be posting today.

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I’m pretty solidly in the pro-gun camp, myself, but I have to acknowledge this:

“Good guys” with guns cause panic, delay investigation

as a legitimate concern.

I don’t want or need to carry a gun to be out in public. I also have no particular worry about other people carrying guns around. Folks that carry under a CCW are, I’m happy to wager, shooting people at a rate considerably less than the remainder of the population that don’t have a CCW.

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