Go, democracy! Beat socialized losses for too-big-to-fail finance. Now can we get a quick popular vote here to reconsider TPP fast track authority?
Itâs true that Angela Merkel and many Germans have supported harsh conditions on the people of Eurozone debtor states, and that, on average, Germans are more likely to be lenders than borrowers. Itâs true that Greece forgave Germanyâs war debts in 1953, and again after reunification in 1990.
Yes, but I like Pikettyâs more forceful renunciation of Germanyâs current hypocrisy, in a recent interview with a German newspaper:
I see finance minister Yanis Varoufakis just resigned despite the result.
Great interview!
ââŚGermany is really the single best example of a country that, throughout its history, has never repaid its external debt. Neither after the First nor the Second World War. However, it has frequently made other nations pay up, such as after the Franco-Prussian War of 1870, when it demanded massive reparations from France and indeed received them. The French state suffered for decades under this debtâŚâ
Thatâs interesting. Cite?
Yes, I was about to say the same. That surprises me, given the big hand he had in this victory. Heâs probably spent the last few hours crowd-surfing.
I think a lot of big things could happen quickly. This âNoâ vote is a political and financial earthquake.
@lgoldberg, see the Guardian.
Thx @milliefink
Hereâs the quote Mr. Varoufakis gave the Guardian:âSoon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted âpartnersâ, for my⌠âabsenceâ from its meetings,â he wrote.
www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/06/greek-finance-minister-yanis-varoufakis-resigns-despite-referendum-no-vote
I read somewhere that other countriesâ apparatchiks/finance-industry servants apparently pulled the tone argument on him. Good on him for still saying things like this:
I consider it my duty to help Alexis Tsipras exploit, as he sees fit, the capital that the Greek people granted us through yesterdayâs referendum. And I shall wear the creditorsâ loathing with pride.
EDIT: He basically accused the âpartnersâ of terrorism; he may be right, but heâs not going to be effective as a negotiator nowâŚ
Honestly, even if creditors write off a lot of the debt, Greece will still be in deep shit since they wonât be able to borrow money to do any kind of stimulus. Who would be insane enough to lend them any?
I donât see how they survive in the eurozone without a miraculous economic boom.
This is squeezing Greece(and Cyprus) out of the EU and into closer relations to culturally and fiscally already close Russia.
If the Ukraine invasion/insurgency worries you then states siding with Putin and that neo-rightist cult are not what you want to see.
Ha, that is the most French interview Iâve ever read. But he has a point. Germans internalise the economic power of their country to an extent that even laypeople feel like they can lecture everybody else on economics. Like dude, youâre in undergrad - pretty sure youâre not the one driving GDP growth.
German here. What makes witnessing the current discussion in Germany even more unbearable is that this blinkered view extends even further. The central founding myth of the post-war German Republic is the âWirtschaftswunderâ, the âeconomic miracleâ. Supposedly through sheer hard work and determination alone the German people managed to drag themselves out from under the ruins of the war and reach an unprecedented level of prosperity.
It conveniently leaves out that much of the success must be attributed to factors outside the control of the then West-Germans (Marshall plan, the waiver of reparations by other countries including Greece, the massive influx of cheap and highly skilled labour from the Soviet zone, booming exports after the start of the Korean War). This myth is still prevalent today in that many Germans still regard themselves as hard and able workers and anybody whoâs denied the same success must be inherently lazy.
This sentiment is played like a fiddle by Germanyâs biggest tabloid âBildâ. While being conservative and pro big business itâs very popular among the working class. On a daily basis theyâre whipping up support for Merkelâs austerity diktats with horror stories about the âlazyâ Greeks living high on âourâ money. So these readers provide the political base for the dismantling of social security systems in Greece to the detriment of the people they should feel much closer to than their own politicians and bankers. Makes you want to puke.
This is human nature - you wouldnât believe the number of people here in the United States that were born with the best schools, multiple homes, 24x7 help raising the children (nanny/etc), and college paid for regardless of scholarships - and a business loan (or loans - or as an alternative a cherry position with a major company) on graduation⌠who then turn around and blame those peasants for not having the âhard work ethicâ to make their own way. Heck you even get that from people who have so much money they have never had to labor in their life (labor being a job hat actually hurts your body from the simple task of âdoingâ it).
Seriously itâs very easy for humans (of any ethnic/social background) to look at someone less fortunate as lazy. This is how we make ourselves feel better about keeping what we work for - because admitting to ourselves that itâs ok to keep things for ourselves makes us realize how shitty it is when a guy is on the corner needing a hamburger. The less you have the less this really enters your mind, because you donât have largess you need to make up reasons to keep.
That sounds so familiar for some reason. Almost like itâs happening in the US as well. Hmmm
The austerity and debt hawks like to thumbnail their positions by comparing states to households: a family canât run a deficit indefinitely without a reckoning. Families need to get their money from somewhere. Families must repay their debts. But states arenât families: families canât issue their own currency. Families donât have central banks. Families are subject to inflation, but have no say over inflation. Families canât pass laws. Families arenât sovereign
.
âFamilies must repay their debts.â Or they can declare bankruptcy - just like countries who default, the effect is it makes it very hard to get credit again.
" families canât issue their own currency" Neither can Greece whilst itâs part of the Eurozone
âFamilies donât have central banksâ Neither does Greece whilst itâs part of the Eurozone
âFamilies are subject to inflation, but have no say over inflationâ Just like Greece under the Eurozone
âFamilies canât pass laws.â Families can make rules that affect their members, but donât affect wider society. Greece can make laws that affect the Greeks - but not their foreign debtors
âFamilies arenât sovereignâ Just like Greece under the Eurozone
Iâd dispute whether this wishful thinking analysis applied to any country - it sure as hell doesnât to Eurozone members.
That would imply South Carolina is being asked to service their own debt. They most certainly are not.
Well said though not limited to Germans. Monied interests too generally seem to present as though they were the ones paying rent and working hard.
all the while the Greeks externalize all blame for their crisis - itâs all the EUâs, Germanys, the banks etc fault not the tax evasion, corrupt politicians, overblown âself-serviceâ public sector, early retirement etc.
