Just like you’re using a definition of “politically correct” I’ve never heard of if you use it as an excuse not to investigate child rape.
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I’m not using it. The founder of British Muslim Youth is using it.
Personally, I don’t like using the term. I think it is largely meaningless.
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“Sorry Byron C. Clark. You didn’t fix society by tweaking your browser. You fail.”
-People in this thread
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“I’m just being rational here” is a pretty frequent excuse for being racist.
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Very few people on the left use the term. It’s almost exclusively used by people on the right to bitch about the practice of treating people with respect. Thus the original post.
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(1) You can have border security without acting in a racist manner. And (2) yes, you are wrong to act in a racist manner.
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I was engaged in a Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/War on Christmas debate in another forum which boiled down to the same concept. I don’t say Happy Holidays because I have something against Christmas. I celebrate Christmas. I say Happy Holidays because I want to be inclusive. In fact, if I know what that person celebrates I will wish them a happy [winterholiday of their choosing].
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Happy Winterval!
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Like it’s an alien freaking concept to want to say the thing that’s received the best
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Eh, it isn’t just the right complaining about “political correctness”. It is a nebulous term. The problem is what one person views as acceptable, another person may not. What one person considers “treating people with respect”, another person find crossing a line into something else.
I mean, we can all pretty much agree and make a strong case that not using slurs is a sign of respect, and not political correctness run amok. But when you get into other realms, such as safe spaces on public grounds meant to keep out the press during a protest - eh - the line starts to get grey. I am sure there are other examples you can think of. Another example is I feel some times issues are ignored or down played because the realities strengthen the bias of bigots. But ignoring an unfortunate fact doesn’t make it go away, nor does acknowledging it make the bias any more true.
Especially in comedy and satire, what is deemed acceptable and politically correct has changed and morphed all the time. Certainly certain brands of humor are best left to history, but at the same time when people like Chris Rock and Jerry Seinfeld, neither of who are remotely close to right wing, are complaining about political correctness, perhaps the two terms aren’t completely interchangeable in every instance.
So in summary, treating people with respect is the right thing to do and something we should all do. Political Correctness is usually the right thing to do, and a good way to treat people with respect, but sometimes it is also used as political and social tool.
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What’s the difference between saying “we can’t tell jokes that aren’t considered PC anymore” and “we can’t tell jokes that are considered disrespectful anymore?” Serious question.
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Maybe neither of us have read the article? That would be rather amusing.
Professor Alexis Jay’s report, commissioned by Rotherham Borough Council, said: “Several councillors interviewed believed that by opening up these issues they could be ‘giving oxygen’ to racist perspectives that might in turn attract extremist political groups and threaten community cohesion.”
This has left the leader of a Muslim organisation in Rotherham furious.
“In the name of what community cohesion and political correctness? Not in the name of my community,” said Muhbeen Hussain, founder of British Muslim Youth.
Yes, front line staff didn’t discriminate, but policy was crafted to downplay and limit the investigation of the crimes. Some people were told to do it without causing a stir and, of course, you can’t do this sort of investigation quietly and without a stir. There’s bound to be policemen clomping about at all hours asking pointed questions and so on. I’m sure that the councilors involved would have cheerfully agreed to an invisible, inaudible investigation that magically made the perpetrators disappear. Except, of course, that’s not on the menu.
Second, even if it HAD affected the investigation, the alternative - “assume that Pakistani men are raping women an act accordingly” - is bad policing.
Indeed it is. I’m sure that the Pakistani Muslim gentlefolk of Rotherham quoted in the article don’t think it is the correct behavior either. However, that’s not what’s being discussed at all.
Why is it, I wonder, that the only people who I hear bawling on about how political correctness is hurting them are those people who want to say something bad about minorities…
This is a fascinating thing to say. It’s written in reply to me so presumably it refers to me in some way, and yet… I didn’t bawl about anything, least of all how political correctness is hurting me. And I am reasonably sure I said not a whit bad about minorities. I mean, English is not my native language, perhaps I made some sort of mistake? I don’t think treating people with respect is wrong. I think it is distinct from political correctness both from a descriptivist point of view and ontologically.
Surely you did not mean to insinuate that I wrote what I did because I am a horrible racist, thus obviating the need to talk to me at all, did you? That would be not be very civil.
Yes, when investigating a crime in a minority community, you should be careful not to suggest that the criminals you are investigating somehow represent the minority community as a whole. That’s how you do responsible police-work.
I agree with this. Everyone agrees with this. This is not under discussion at all. You should also not score political and/or virtue points over innocent victims using an entire, entirely blameless, group of people as a shield. The ‘entirely blameless people,’ just so there’s no confusion, are the Muslim citizens of Rotherham.
@ChaosEngineer: I’ve written up in the above what I suspect happened. A quiet investigation was called for. So quiet that, in the end, it simply couldn’t take place. Obviously, I could be wrong. I’m not even from the UK. What I do know comes from the British media which is as reliable as media generally is, i.e. not much. However, my point wasn’t if the scandal in Rotherham happened one way or another. My point is that what is said to have happened in Rotherham is called political correctness. And that this represents an example of the word being used in a sense where it cannot be replaced with ‘treating people with respect’ without twisting the meaning of those words into a grotesquery.
Very few people on the left use the term. It’s almost exclusively used by people on the right to bitch about the practice of treating people with respect. Thus the original post.
From where I’m standing the American political landscape stretches all the way from Right to Extreme Right but, fine, fair enough. However, I don’t know that I agree with the central assertion. I don’t know what the percentages are and if the right does use the term, then the worst thing you can do is define away any problems with the term and then only use your idiosyncratic definition when talking to people. How the hell do you change people’s mind if you remove their perspective from your information bubble via machine? How do you talk to someone? Do you think that everyone who doesn’t share your definition of political correctness is irredeemably evil to such an extent that talking to them is a waste of time?
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How about just replacing it with:
The hypersensitivity of some people isn’t the issue; that’s deflection that avoids solving problems.
There is a standard for how members of a civilized society behave, and failing to uphold it means that one is actively part of its slow decay; even if that is not one’s conscious intent.
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I dunno’, letting (non-white or christian*) people chose what they would like to be called… just seems like respect to me.
*white christians already get to pick
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Since I started grad school in the 1960s (and included matters of language use in my studies), I’ve had the opportunity to watch the rise of the term “political correctness” and the attitudes behind its use on both sides of the cultural fence. The phrase has been transvalued multiple times–the Wikipedia article on it traces its path from unironic to ironic to smear/sneer rather nicely. And while the current conservative take is certainly a sneer, in those years I observed on the left what gives that sneer some of its real sting: a rather obsessive-compulsive (and I would say often guilt-driven) attempt to root out of everyday language any hint of offense, actual or imagined, conscious or unconscious, intended or accidental.
It could and did go beyond identifying and shaming obvious slurs and insults, sometimes digging deep into linguistic history to uncover the (often forgotten) ethnic/gender-based roots of common phrases. And this has included some linguistically-erroneous connections–use “niggardly” in a blog post and watch the reactions in the comment thread.
Those sometimes-hypersensitive or overcautious attitudes toward language can go beyond ordinary decency, tact, and respect, to the point where delicacy is more important than precision and directness. (I note that on the left some highly-charged labels–racist, sexist, homophobe–are applied with more enthusiasm than care, in ways that rob them of the impact they ought to have.)
Of course, labels are blunt instruments, and human behavior is complex and motivation is often conflicted. We need more reflection and less reflex, more scalpels and fewer clubs.
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Concerned citizen?
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“It’s taken’ my freedomz that I don’t any more get to call anybody whatever I want!”
“Wahhhh!”
“Putin just wants to give me my hard won freedomz back!”
“Yayyy!”
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I think the objection of people who complain about political correctness is their perception that that standard is constantly being unilaterally adjusted, not by actual aggrieved parties but by shit-disturbers whose only real motive is to assert social power.
That dynamic does exist, but it’s far outweighed by sincere complaints. Best to assume sincerity, absent evidence to the contrary.
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Today is Festivus, you heathen scum!
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That does sound like a lovely idea. What, precisely, does it have to do with what I wrote is anyone’s guess.
