And I point out the distinction of moral debt for a good reason. There’s plenty of people who are related to slave owners (myself included) closely or distantly. Am I magically obligated to feel guilt or some how pay a non-economic ‘good’ for what one of my ancestors had done? I don’t think this would follow to a good end considering I’m also related to people who served the Teutonic Knights which weren’t really nice to the Old Prussians (possibly related to modern Estonians). It would be a messy thing that doesn’t factor into actual justice or consistent ethics.
Most people don’t require “magic” to feel some measure of ancestral shame about that sort of thing, especially when the foundation of their family’s economic status was built on the enslavement of other human beings. But hey, whatever works…
Perhaps a humanitas miserationem would do the trick.
Suggestions, anyone?
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I must be weird since I don’t think much about my ancestors as people that matter. To me, they’re dust, so why bother having such feelings for someone you’ve never met nor will ever meet? It’s a primitive concept to believe your ancestors have any bearing on you beyond passing on genes. You’re your own maker pass that point. /offtopic
This is why I think economics is a just way of dealing with this argument.
Step1: agree there are economic problems due to state sponsored oppression.
Step2: agree how big that gap is.
Step3: define and fund programs to close that gap.
No sin, no blame, just fixes. Fun as a root canal I’m sure, but I’ve had two of those and I’m alright.
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But I will say it has some applicability (ancestor worship/reverence) to this topic of reparations as people use this as a means to continue injustices but under a different guise of “pride” (ex. white nationalism). Too many folks think their great-great-great-grand-cousin-roommate-graduate-tutor confers a special power to inflict harm on others for the sheer joy of it. Or that it excuses them from adjusting faulty policies on the books.
I see no issue with that which is my point. I just think there needs to be emphasis on the economic aspect. Also, I don’t think people realize on the matter of reparations that there’s no new taxes to be had since it comes out of the same budget in the first place. Frankly, I’d rather it go to some real use than building bombs or figuring out how to spy on my Tumblr porn collection (I said too much).
Right—ancestry has nothing to do with, say, who gets born into a poor island nation still suffering from the centuries-long legacy of slavery versus who gets born into an upper-class family in the UK.
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You’re confusing the pointing finger for the Moon.
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Funny that, the normal person prefers helping their fellow human over espionage and war. Wait, are we both normal? I can’t be… 
Chairs!!
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And you’re only listening to about half of what everyone else is saying. Is there something about “generational transfer of wealth” versus “the opposite” that you can’t understand?
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OK, I’m back. Had to deal with some other stuff; I have a sad freezer.
@anon15383236, my apologies for not engaging with your points. I am sure there will be more opportunities.
@albill, if you will merely think twice before posting the equivalent to “it would be worse if they were black” in response to someone, that is all I ask. Just take a second to see what it might look like to a young person who gets that message all day long, and whether it would be a good or a bad thing. Then post whatever the hell you want; I’m asking for a very small bit of mindfulness and that is all I ask. I promise not to ask again.
@gregmcph, they really do have a point, it’s just that apparently they can’t ever force themselves to make it in any less confrontational, more effective way. Pot calling the kettle black in my case, perhaps, but then again maybe it takes one to know one…
@Mister44, I’m glad you asked. The way forward (for those not stuck in endless loops of demanding “acknowledgment”) is massive reform of and investment in the educational system. You know, the thing that the last two administrations have promised and not delivered? Structural racism can’t be defeated with handouts or by dragging everyone down to the same level - it’s only by increasing economic and educational opportunities for the poor - particularly the Southern poor, who are primarily non-white - that we can make any meaningful progress within our lifetimes. Each of us can do this unilaterally; we don’t need to wait for politicians. Volunteer, engage, adopt, do something for Habitat, send money to Heifer or the SPLC… but get in personal contact and do things in the meat world. I never tire of sending that message, so thanks for giving me the opening.
Everyone else who posted, I’m sorry I can’t spend more time on this, and if you haven’t grokked my point of view, or you feel I haven’t fully considered yours, I hope we will be able to remedy this another day.
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But by and large, when I say that, it is true and will be as long as racism in America goes unaddressed.
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I don’t think that matters in the context of my request, honestly. But I’ll stop belaboring the point; I regret my part in almost completely hijacking this thread away from Jamaican politics.
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It’s a date! Drinks on me in the next forum scuffle, we shall remedy whatever remains over a pint of Guinness.
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