Conspiracy to rape.
Good thing the word police arrived!!
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Pimping is not coercion, pimping is profiting from someone elseâs sex work. This wasnât sex work. This was profiting from rape. Thatâs rape.
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Better to get them into the crim system on some kind of charge, rather than fail to get them at all.
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Indeed!
Isnât it just a little unusual that the individuals accused of making the financial threat and the people who actually engaged in the physical acts are different people? Who is the perp?
No? Standard cut-and-dry case? OK then.
The one holding the weapon is still a rapist, even if he doesnât âpartakeâ AFAIC
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According to the paper, the crime of rape in Japan implies vaginal penetration⌠penetration of other orifices is indecent assault.
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Yep. Brock Turner raping someone with a stick doesnât make the stick guilty. With human actors, the possibility is they are also guilty. This isnât the leap you think it is.
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Are they treated as crimes of differing severity?
Actually, women being coerced by threats into having sex with B by A so that A can profit is grotesquely common.
This thread has a lot of âOh come now, donât accuse sex slavers of rape. Thatâs not fair to sex slavers.â
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Itâs in the appendices⌠they refer to them right there in the very paragraphs! (but yes, indecent assault has lesser penalties)
Thank you. Didnât have time to look through an academic paper right now.
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Itâs called human trafficking. Itâs a huge issue here and and even bigger one in the UAE, where I used to live. Iâm all for making sex-work safe (i.e. legal) in large part to put an end to this fucking industry built on sexual coercion.
Sexual coercion is another way of describing rape. Just in case people are still confused about this.
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Throw the (digital) flags. Itâs time to move on.
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Mostly, yes. Actually Iâd be happy with being right to say that it is not âVergewaltigungâ, I will happily defer to the politically reasonable half of English native speakers to tell me what the accepted definition of the English word is. International semantics is relevant here, because the BB article weâre commenting under made fun of/criticised the word choice of the Japanese organisation that that issued that statement.
My country is as different from Japan as yours is. So, by the same authority as you are, I guess. I was using legal system and language between America and my own country to point out that people shouldnât be arguing word choice in a text translated from Japanese.
From my own cultural experience, I know it as a fact that the word you will see translated as ârapeâ has wider meanings in some places than in others. Evil behavior might be evil everywhere, but if a different culture assigns a different name to it, that does not give you a right to look down on that culture or on individuals that are part of it.
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To the extent that you are reminding us that there is no perfect one-to-one translation from one language to another, so one language might have multiple words that translate to one word in another language, or even pairs of words that translate differently depending on circumstances, that is a good reminder, and we should all be mindful of that. I recall talking to a North American localization team about translating one game from Japanese to English and translating something that was roughly literally, âFarm where demons are grownâ as âWell of darknessâ.
But maybe you could remember the same thing before you act with derision towards people who are referring to this as rape with the following:
Because thatâs a pretty ridiculous comment to make given that you agree with me that it is reasonable for me to refer to this as rape.
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Yes, absolutely. âWhoops, we fucked upâ is what happens when I donât know, you print a penis looking cartoon on your product box designed for families⌠Not when you create an industry that enforces contracts of rape and violence.
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Itâs almost as if the context of language has meaning and weight or something!
I donât think observing the horror of is âmaking fun ofâ, either
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Over my head.
Excuse me, that is not mansplaining. But thanks for anglosplaining to me how English-language rules of proper victim-respecting word choice are in fact universal values that should be enforced on the Japanese as well.
Are they really being enforced?
Yes, morality is subjective (no matter what some people may think) but moral relativity can only ever be self serving.
Fine, you donât think this is rape I get it. But arguing that the Japanese system of law doesnât think is rape is pointless since the response has been about how this should be considered rape because we all understand it already isnât considered rape in Japan.
My native language isnât English either; Iâm not American. I do think this is a sex crime and specifically rape. The law may not agree with me, but laws are not made to give us a framework for thinking about the world, laws arenât natural or infallible. The Japanese may never consider this rape in the colloquial sense either. But I can make the case canât I?
You may remain unconvinced, you can even offer your own counterargument, but you donât get to say youâre right because thatâs the way things are.
If the facts we know here are true, then this woman was basically blackmailed into having sex. On camera.
Is this rape? Well itâs a crime, we can at least agree on that. (from this point on lets not argue Japanese law unless we want to look stupid)
Is it a sex crime? The point of the blackmail was financial gain through forcing a person to have sex against her will. This was to be recorded and sold for financial gain. The very act of recording also served to perpetuate the blackmail scheme.
The goal was to make money, they coerced a woman to have sex so they could make money.
This is starting to sound a bit more like human trafficking, which is even worse. Now maybe we couldnât argue rape on a technicality: Could we say that the people that had sex with this woman are rapists? Thatâs the tricky bit. I suppose itâs possible that they were not told she was doing this against her will, if she was blackmailed she wouldnât either.
But does that absolve them of any guilt?
Are we now short a crime because we canât find blame?
Was it OK for somebody to penetrate her because he didnât know she didnât want to be there?
Somebody should find out how much the other participants knew.
Would that change your mind?
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That agreement stems from a learning process based on me observing how reasonable people use the English word ârapeâ. I have, therefore, since officially retracted this âCorollaryâ. I did completely fall into the same trap that Iâve tried to warn everyone else about.
I also offer that as evidence for the fact that this âtrapâ is real.
Moral relativity to a certain degree is can be necessary for the peaceful coexistence of different cultures. Not calling everyone who failed to abolish capital punishment a âmurdererâ is a pretty big display of moral relativism on my part, but I still think it makes me an easier person to get along with. Of course, it is your right - it may even be your duty - to try to convince others of what you think is right and wrong. No need for complete moral relativism. I was only saying that no one should measure their moral superiority by the word choice in translated texts.
No, you donât get it, since Iâve since retracted that position as far as the English word is concerned. I have been convinced that the English word ârapeâ applies to wider range of crimes than I originally assumed.
Also, I have never, ever, claimed that any of those crimes by a different name are not crimes or are somehow âOKâ or anything. I have just said that it is not our place to complain when the terms are arranged differently in Japanese than they are in English.
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