Juror's concern that man on trial didn't swear on the bible results in the verdict getting tossed

I’ve served on three juries and have never seen anyone swear on a bible.
Then again, I’ve always lived in one of those “coastal elite” cities.

2 Likes

Ah, but to follow this reasoning, you have to admit that the only purpose of this ritual is to convince the subject to be truthful, and that it should therefore be tailored to the subject’s beliefs.

When you believe your own religion to be the only true one, it makes perfect sense that everybody should be forced to swear on your holy book, as it is the only one that will have an actual effect on the subject’s afterlife.

7 Likes

Just a quick reminder: Trump used two bibles to swear on at his inauguration.
Worked out great, didn’t it.

6 Likes

Now that you mention it, isn’t the whole swearing on the Bible thing just a weird superstition? If the whole point is to compel people to tell the truth, wouldn’t it be better to do something like the reading of your Miranda rights? Something like saying “do you understand that lying to this court is against the law and you can be convicted for doing it. “? Merely making someone put their hand on the Bible and say the word swear, doesn’t really convey the legal imperative to tell the truth. That only works if you have a religious fear of God or specifically the Christian God of the Bible That your hand is on.

11 Likes

I don’t believe that’s actually a legal thing. Some people choose to swear on a Bible, but it’s still “testifying under oath” if you swear on another document (such as a Quran the US Constitution) or on no document at all.

1 Like

The only oath I recognize is that sworn over the steaming entrails of a giant Sloar.

5 Likes

Splitter!
 

8 Likes

I’ve only been lucky enough to sit in one jury, but I feel it’s my patriotic duty to do it so I can balance out the stupid. I’ll sit anytime I’m called on, if chosen.

The group chose me as lead, and were ready to just call it until I pointed out a few discrepancies – and made sure the women were being listened to. Nobody’s getting out of here by phoning it in, by gum.

15 Likes

Or, if I understand correctly, if you choose to affirm rather than swear to tell the truth, to accommodate Quakers and other Christians who take seriously the bit of the Bible where Jesus tells people not to swear oaths:

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

— Matthew 5:33–37 (part of the Sermon on the Mount, no less).

5 Likes

I wonder how many places still ask people to swear, “so help me god.”

14 Likes

A jury in 2011 found Husain created a hostile work environment, sexually harassed and retaliated against a then-part time office employee, who was awarded $12,500 in the civil case.

Keeping a civil case going for 8 years, not to mention the new trial, has got to be costing much, much more than $12,500.

The New York Times writes that

In 1901, Theodore Roosevelt had to take the oath in a hurry after receiving word that President William McKinley had been assassinated in Buffalo. During the ceremony, at Roosevelt’s friend’s house, no Bible could be found and Roosevelt was sworn in as president without one.

bully for him

That same article suggests

Mr. Ellison, or anyone else, could have also used a comic book, a lesser Shakespeare play or nothing at all.

By lesser shakespeare play, the author suggests Titus Andronicus, but the joke is not explained. Perhaps the play involves oaths of some sort. :slight_smile:

And here, in sight of heaven, to Rome I swear,
If Saturnine advance the Queen of Goths,
She will a handmaid be to his desires,
A loving nurse, a mother to his youth.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/us/politics/roy-moore-bible-ted-crockett.html

4 Likes
  • Lucius. Who should I swear by? thou believest no god:
    That granted, how canst thou believe an oath?

  • Aaron. What if I do not? as, indeed, I do not;
    Yet, for I know thou art religious
    And hast a thing within thee called conscience,
    With twenty popish tricks and ceremonies,
    Which I have seen thee careful to observe,
    Therefore I urge thy oath; for that I know
    An idiot holds his bauble for a god
    And keeps the oath which by that god he swears,
    To that I’ll urge him: therefore thou shalt vow
    By that same god, what god soe’er it be,
    That thou adorest and hast in reverence,
    To save my boy, to nourish and bring him up;
    Or else I will discover nought to thee.

9 Likes

Not sure how it is in the U.S., but I expect it can’t be so very different from the UK. Here we can swear on the Bible, as default. We can swear on the relevant holy book if we are abrahamic - Jews can swear on the Torah, Muslims can swear on the Quran. Sikhs can swear “by Guru Nanak”. Buddhists can swear “to speak as in the presence of the Buddha”. Humanists can “affirm”. A Pagan can swear “by all I hold sacred”. Seems reasonable to me. The main objection which strikes me as intensely ironic, is that Christians are instructed not to swear. Quakers, who take this seriously, will affirm.

8 Likes

One cancelled the other out…

7 Likes

Was one the Wicked Bible?

Thou shalt commit adultery.

— Exodus 20:14 as it appears in the aforementioned edition.

4 Likes

IIRC you can choose to affirm without having to give any particular reason.

3 Likes

The problem is that there is a default at all. Better yet, have everyone just affirm that they swear to tell the truth. Nobody should be allowed to swear on any object or book. To do otherwise introduces an, at best, completely irrelevant, or at worst, prejudicial religious test.

5 Likes

This goes to show why even allowing people to swear religious oaths curtails religious freedom. If a secular affirmation would be sufficient, then the only purpose of swearing on a bible is to court illegal religious bias.

3 Likes