Koch brothers raise 2016 election warchest that's bigger than either party's spend

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Remember all those people who say both parties are exactly alike and voting doesn’t matter? The Koch brothers didn’t need to spend a dime to neuter them. If they can convince minorities to stay home, that’s all they need. If they can rile up their base, that might be enough too. They don’t need to convince the 90% who are already convinced.


You know, talking to you stresses me out, and frankly I find it exhausting. Please take it as a compliment because I mean it as such. Because you always insist on bringing up points that make me question my assumptions and rile my pragmatism.

I usually agree in principle, but so often I fail to see a point in the discussion because I have no idea how your ideas could possibly be implemented in practice so I get annoyed on two fronts. Mainly it’s because you’re making me think uncomfortably much.

Think of it this way, talking with you feels like fighting a specter with a sword I’ve only just noticed is rusty and cracked. Which is how it felt to speak with my philosophy teacher in college.


If this doesn’t show that Citizen’s United has to be overturned and chucked out in the street, then nothing else does.


The Kochs will raise $889M from conservative millionaires and billionaires to spend in the 2016 election

Meanwhile, I’m sure the opposition is raising money from the lemonade stands of small children, wholesome bake sales, and the couches of little old ladies.


Why do people think this system is “representative” or “correctable” at all anymore? People actually suggest “campaign finance reform” with seriousness after watching the previous “reforms?” It’s done. Put a fork in it. We have new technology; it’s time to try something with that rather than spinning our wheels on this old, broken bullshit of “democracy.”

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With money and influence the KockBros will buy an image of nice old farts that wouldn’t harm a fly…

These two sociopaths have done more damage to the USA then can be imagined, and that’s what we know of, the hidden debacles would scare the shit out’a you.

Koch is not only making their chosen candidates’ campaigns more likely to succeed, they are buying the candidates.


Soooo let me get this straight. The Koch brothers have stated that they will, essentially, spare no expense in buying the upcoming election. Uh, shouldn’t that be illegal? It would be in any truly developed country. Apparently, we need to just “close our eyes and think of America” as our Democracy gets well and truly fucked, and turned into a 100% plutocratic corporatocracy.


The law in its infinite majesty allows the poor as well as evil billionaire plutocrats to buy elections.

You should have worked harder to inherit billions if you wanted a say. You get no sympathy from me.

Personally, I reckon the amount of spending / donations allowed per person should in some way be related to minimum wage.


Ok…so what? They haven’t done anything illegal. How do we counter this? Put more money into bullshit ads instead of spending it on important stuff like caring for the poor?

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it’s true. i knew someone who was in the political data mining game. the state of the art a few years ago was to correlate drive-by features of your house to your voting preferences. did you know that a visible swing-set is a very significant predictor of being Republican?

it’s only gotten “better” since.


i thought it would at least be polite to require every cut of $X in public spending to be accompanied by the introduction of Y suicide booths in economically-depressed areas. accountability, y’know?


Have you been living under a rock these past 10 years?

Money wins elections, pure and simple. 90+ percent of the winners in the 2008 elections outspent their opponents.

Does the name Les Lessig mean anything to you?


In 2004, the Sierra Club distributed a brochure that advocated electing Kerry over Bush.

Before it was legalized by the decision in the Citizens United case, that activity was a crime. The Federal Election Commission fined the Sierra Club $28,000.

This is the very scary, Democracy-killing heart of Citizens United: people don’t lose their First Amendment rights just because they’re organized as a corporation.

Doesn’t seem that scary to me.

(Plus, you anti-Citizens United folks, don’t you realize you’re basically advocating that the government censor a movie?)

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Holy shit! My neighbor, who is republican, did have a swing in his front yard. The tree died and they cut it down. Does that mean he is democratic now or independent?

We are a democracy of money.

Thats from the second article I linked above, the one by Lessig.

A democracy of money is called a plutocracy :sob:


Arguably the point of spending all the money on election advertising is to create the impressions that it’s the elections that matter, not the policies enacted afterwards, nor that there’s any other way to effect political change, so that people should go out to vote once every few years and go home and not do anything else about politics.


They should know by now that it’s cheaper to just buy the voting machines in all the swing states, and…wait, what?
Sorry, I forgot that already happened repeatedly.

Very good point. I talked once with one of Saul Alinsky’s henchmen who pointed out the purpose of politics is to distract us from where the real power is.