Libertarians exit, pursued by bears

No doubt Niven&Pournelle are much better writers than Rand, and perhaps you are right that some of the people who read it takes it more seriously than originally intended. “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” is another book embraced by libertarians for some reason, missing the ending where once free the people on the Moon chose a more conventional government, because if you are not a superman in heavy plot armor you are going to want some protection.

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In many ways its "Got Mine, Want Yours Too, fuck you"

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Personally, I characterize it as “weaponized privilege blindness”. Plenty of poor people are into it, but they have a belief in the world being a meritocracy that only comes from being straight, cis, white, and male.

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While I think these people are idiots, I don’t think they were actually doing much worse than any number of the great anti-state episodes of American Mythology: the pilgrims, the 49ers, the homesteaders etc. Those people were all basically fuckups until the state rolled in behind them to save their asses.

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I once read something saying that Americans and Canadians took opposite lessons from frontier life. Americans learned that you are on your own and must not be dependent on anyone except yourself. Canadians learned that you cannot survive on your own and you have to help your neighbours because one day you will need their help.

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They both agreed on the effectiveness of exploitation and their God given pat on the back for claiming land.

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the book i’m reading: how the south won the civil war* has the premise that arose as part of the legacy of slavery.

government was everywhere: seizing territory from american indians and mexico, the formation of territories and states, laws that restricted who could own property, who could vote, who could testify in court - but it served white men, and especially white wealthy men - to pretend that the west was a level playing field.

just like today: anybody can make it, as long as they are born white, wealthy, and well. for everybody else, and especially the targets of societal racism, good luck

(* hat tip:
Heather Cox Richardson )

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More like LiBEARtarians, amirite?

(stolen from someone more clever than I)

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Or they just claim to be Hoppean libertarians, which can be summarised as the freedom to be a fascist.

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Communism’s problem is that it is usually represented by it’s most authoritarian form, and that form, Marxism-Leninism, has a habit of purging less authoritarian and libertarian (in it’s original, left wing, meaning) forms. This might also be part of the reason why people can’t get their head around the idea of libertarian-socialism.

Bakunin was right.

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Isn’t that basically want most Anarchists want? ‘No government, just community’. In the sense that both Libertarians and Anarchists are anti-authoritarian, but with a right- and left-wing slant respectively.

Libertarian-socialism is the umbrella that anarchism falls under, but also includes libertarian Marxists, Mutualists, impossibilists and other anti authoritarian forms of socialism. It has nothing to do with right wing Libertarians, who only started calling themselves that 100 years after the socialists did.

You only have to go back 20 years for most of the references to libertarians in the British press to be about left wing groups, and it was mostly the WOMBLES, the Antifa of their time.

It’s more like “no hierarchy, just community”. Unless you are dealing with ultra-individualist anarchists or anarcho-primitivists there will be something resembling government, but it won’t be about leaders telling people what to do.

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What if there is more than just the one bear? And, they’re all very hungry.

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“Given a natural number n, you don’t have to be faster than n bears, you just need to be faster than n fellow libertarians.”

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That’s fair.

AynFaire?

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Especially if you have bellicose Americans on your southern borders threatening to invade all the time.

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Anarchists pretty much fell out of fashion after the Spanish Civil War. Their sole attempt at actual implementation of running a community in defense of Barcelona was a failure. Undermined by both Fascists besieging the city and Communist factions they were allied with.

The Romans feeding Christians to the lions was awful, but Libertarians being fed to bears? Tell me more.

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