Man with gun gets robbed by man with a gun, leaving two unarmed people injured

  1. Melting down and turning into a ploughshare

Gun enthusiasts who open carry do so because there are laws against pointing one’s dick at others in public places.


Bullshit. I come from a hunting and ranching family and an AR-15 is a terrible weapon for all those hunting and vermin control-related activities. We use hunting rifles and squirrel guns, respectively, because they are the most effective tools for the job. All bolt-action and hand loaded for consistent range and accuracy.

Take your wanking elsewhere.


People watch too many cop shows on TV, where the handsome hero takes out five bad guys with five well-aimed shots from 100ft away.

Reliably hitting a target with a handgun is surprisingly difficult if it isn’t a stationary piece of paper at a shooting range but is moving about/shooting back/there are people and things nearby that you don’t want to hit by accident.


Whatever. It doesn’t explain why one would want to open-carry an AR-15, which is (a) inconveniently bulky and heavy, and (b) not all that useful in a typical crime situation in the first place. You don’t usually see beat cops, whose whole job it is to provide a crime deterrent, walking about with AR-15s. If you feel you must deter crime, do yourself a favour and open-carry a pistol.

Over here in Germany, AR-15-style rifles are legal for hunting (I think) but they’re generally not used, not just because they’re not great hunting weapons to begin with but also because hunters don’t consider them sporting.


Given the obvious shortage of mature adults in the law-making and lobbying segments of the USA, I fully expect open-carry (although I guess it is hard to conceal them) rocket launchers to be a thing within the next few years.

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You think very, very wrong.


Open carry = a big sign saying “please rob me of my gun while I go to Dunkin Donuts”


Probably, though it’s not chitterlings that I find repulsive. It’s the sanitation practices.


The Bundesjagdgesetz (German federal hunting code) was amended in 2016 to allow hunting with semiautomatic rifles loaded with at most three cartridges (§19(1), no. 2c).

To me, that three-cartridge limit seems, for the most part, to defy the purpose of using a semiautomatic rifle in the first place, but I’m not a hunter or a gun person, so what do I know.


I feel more threatened by open carry than concealed carry because if someone were to come to a place with intent to shoot a bunch of people, he’d start with the people with visible guns. I don’t want to stand next to that. At least concealed carry has a tactical advantage of surprise, and is less of a ‘look at me and my blue steel penis substitute’ move.


Er, the .223 Remington is considered a varmint caliber and definitely used for coyote hunting, though often with soft points or other hunting ammo. If not through an AR platform, then from a bolt action.

People asked what civilians used (ie need) an AR-15 for, and I listed out 3 areas that don’t include other less likely scenarios and a more specific reason than “recreational shooting”.

That’s well and good. Yes for some of those applications I listed, you could use something different.

The bolt action rifle he used was either a copy or a derivative of a military rifle, with different looks. Bolt actions are used in modern militaries to this day.

If congress started mulling over laws to ban them, then you might see a jump in sales. To get one before they are banned.

That really is the #1 cause for a run on something - the threat that it will become scarce soon, whether that be ARs or toilet paper.

IIRC in some countries that is how licensing is set up, where different types of firearms are allowed based on the type of license (sport, hunting., recreation, etc).

There are gobs of hunting articles and videos that contradict your point. I know people who have hunted coyotes, deer, feral pigs, and prairie dogs with ARs.

An AR with a decent barrel, ~3-9x scope and good ammo (handloaded or store bought) will shoot around 1 MOA at 100 yards and be as accurate as most bolt actions. As long as the caliber you are using is appropriate for what you are hunting, the platform it comes out of doesn’t matter.

But you can certainly find some examples where an AR isn’t a good fit.

The limit is to, as you said earlier, make it sporting. The US has similar magazine limits in some states when hunting.

So one thing that surprises me about European hunting - they do a lot more shooting at running game. I think that is partly due to denser forests and a stalking tradition. In certain places, Americans do a lot more long distance hunting, as they have grasslands or fields, or in the case of other regions, mountains.

Which is exactly what people do almost everywhere except the United States.

American school children are regularly slaughtered by the dozen because gun nuts are terrified by the prospect that they might have to enjoy their hobby in a slightly different way.


i had to give up jarts. murder weapon enthusiasts can give up their ar15s. it seems fair


Here in Germany, the right to own firearms is administered separately from the right to carry a loaded, ready-to-use firearm in public.

The former is available, for example, to members of marksmanship clubs, hunters, and gun collectors but they are generally limited in the type and number of firearms they may own based on the type of pursuit they engage in, there are strict safe-storage requirements (including, at least in theory, visits from the authorities to check that everything is where it is supposed to be) and rules for transporting guns and ammunition (e.g., only between your home and the shooting range or place where a competition takes place if you’re a sports shooter, or only between your home and the area where you’re allowed to hunt if you’re a hunter). This includes AR-15-style rifles if you’re, e.g., participating in a type of sports shooting where such rifles are used. As we said, there is a 3-round limit for hunting, and EU legislation caps the magazine capacity of “civilian” semiautomatic rifles in general to 10 rounds. Of course anything fully automatic is right out (fully-automatic firearms are considered “weapons of war”, and their possession is a felony), and even for semiautomatic firearms there needs to be a certification that they can’t be converted to fully-automatic.

The latter is handled very, very restrictively, and unless you are a law enforcement officer, member of a very dangerous profession such as valuable-goods transportation, or can demonstrate an obvious and credible threat to your life you have basically no hope of obtaining a license-to-carry. The amount of red tape for actually obtaining one is also quite considerable.

If you’re into “recreational” shooting but don’t want to join a marksmanship club, your main option is to use an air gun, which is legal to buy without a gun owner’s license if you’re 18 or over. You still don’t get to carry one in public unless you have one of the licenses-to-carry that are virtually impossible to obtain for random citizens.


As we have gone over before, you would need to ban all centerfire (or at least rifle caliber center fire) semi-automatic rifles with removable magazines. Anything less than that is just banning cosmetic features, not functionality.

If that isn’t possible to do, I suggest a tiered licensing system, where different types are allowed under different levels, and have a higher level of scrutiny and age limits.

I concede to raising the age limit for semi-automatic, removable magazine fed rifles to 21, as it is with handguns.

We have had a couple of forum posters from Germany tell us about German gun laws. And Joere, the bonkers sling shot guy on youtube, has a video about them as well. So I have learned a lot about German laws. Always interested in learning more details, thanks.

So when it’s used in an AR-15 platform for varmint eradication, it’s nerfed in order to not be a high-risk round? That kinda makes my point. No one would suddenly be unable to control pests if they did not have access to AR-15 platform firearms.

“Need” and “use” are two critically different words in that context. I might use a sledgehammer to drive a deck nail; that doesn’t make it the only or best tool for the job.


Bullshit. That line of argument needs to die in a fire. There’s nothing magical about the US that keeps us from doing what every other developed country has done successfully for decades.


Correction: “we would get to ban all centerfire semi-automatic rifles with removable magazines.”


Haven’t you heard? Hammers kill more people every year than guns. :roll_eyes: