12 Likes
But did it ever really have social cohesive value?
4 Likes
He can just hire a goy to press the power button, and page down for him.
3 Likes
The most recent study that led to those headlines appears to be this:
EDIT: heh, that seems to be the other way around, actually…
1 Like
Man. I’m not sure I’ve seen a thread with so few hearts clicked. Do we really care THAT MUCH about Zuckerberg’s religious faith or lack thereof? He’s a rich dude who runs a social media company. Am I missing something here?
17 Likes
I think in the 19th century atheism was definitely a factor in uniting certain parts of educated English society. In London Bentham and Mill were among the group that founded University College and University College School, both of which were explicitly “godless institutions” without chapels, and it was this group that eventually grew into the socialist movement that included George Bernard Shaw, many of whose plays campaigned for a rationalist, atheist conception of the good society (one of his remarks, today forgotten, was a rejection of Jesus’s comment that “you will always have the poor with you”; he argued that the poor were degraded and disgusting, true, so the answer was to abolish poverty.)
I do think atheism and rationalism provided an alternative rallying point for progressive society in this particular environment.
8 Likes
Sure, but that’s was a thin veneer of all of society. And couldn’t you say that the socialist political view might have been a larger connective view? And I’m also not sure if that has much relevance for the modern atheist movement, which certainly wasn’t inclined to socialism? [ETA] I think focusing on an elite movement misses the forest for the trees, perhaps?
2 Likes
man, so many pixels spilled for this. it seems simple to me: he’s getting older. it’s easy to be an atheist when you’re young and things seem so black and white – but all he said was that now he sees things differently and feels religion is important.
i may not personally believe in an all-powerful deity somewhere, but as i’ve gotten older i understand that having a spiritual life is important to some people, and i try not to slag them for it as long as they don’t try to impose it on me. that’s what i feel he’s saying here, too.
9 Likes
Also, having children can move people to be more religious or to go back to their faith.
2 Likes
He’s 32!
13 Likes
I’d also want to see the effects of this on atheists themselves. I do remember a lot of anti-atheist sentiment when I was a churchgoer, but it was more as a concept. Muslims, and particularly visible Muslims would have to face antagonism in their daily lives; I’m pretty sure that orthodox Jews would have more trouble in public too.
5 Likes
I have been noted elsewhere accidentally using English instead of American, so perhaps in the US “did it ever” has a different meaning. I read it as “have there ever been circumstances in which”.
Atheism as an explicit rejection of theological religion was also a feature of Marxist-Leninism, a pseudo-secular religion in which to a degree Hegelian dialectic is seen as a kind of informing power of the universe, but I guess you would rule that out as an example on different grounds.
1 Like
“Spiritual but not religious” is certainly a category.
“Religious but not spiritual”, on the other hand, does not really make any sense. Religion implies some level of spirituality. I think what you were implying however was someone being “culturally”/“ethnically” Jewish without being religious.
However, Zuck does specifically use the word “religion”… Perhaps he’s saying that he finds he enjoys the tribal feeling of community one experiences in a religion? (As distinct from the actual tenets of the religion.) The problem is, when one says “religion” one is invariably faced with the tenets of that religion; that’s what the religion is.
What metric would you use to say that atheists are more detested than Muslims in America?
Well, maybe now, with ISIS and Trumpism dominating the scene, Muslims are more detested. But don’t worry, in 5-10 years, when things settle down, people will get back to detesting atheists and they’ll regain their “#1” status!
Hm. Maybe that would be closer, but as you note, it functions as a “pseudo-secular” religion and in most cases in the eastern bloc, there was still a very strong set of beliefs that either went underground or found ways to accommodate itself to the ruling regime. And of course, in some cases, the state was secular, but private religious faith was tolerated or in the case of Yugoslavia, even at times cultivated as a mode of social control. Considering that force and coercion was involved, in any case, and that the Soviet marxist-leninism itself proved to be an ever changing beast, even under Stalin, I suspect you’re correct that I’d probably rule it out. In this case, how we’d figure out who are the true believers in the dogmatic doctrine and who are going along to get along is kind of a tough exercise. But you’re correct in that it officially represents an atheist world view, even with the very real cracks that actually existed in that world view.
And in the US, despite being founded on secular principles (meaning no official state religion, not everyone lacking religious belief), is a deeply religious country. As someone noted above, many people mistrust atheists in America. Pretty much many of the active atheist movements (not to mention alternative religions that aren’t Eurocentric protestantism) have had a tough ride here.
4 Likes
Yeah, its been a good run. But through many millenia of unknown barbarism and known civilization, through trial-and-error with 500 to 1000 supposed deities, we can finally consider the book on atheism closed, now that we have finally found the one true religion. I am, of course, referring to
7 Likes
The US has deviated quite a long way from Eurocentric Protestantism, in fact the latest scandal in the UK is private schools opened following US Protestant lines, whose teachings and methods are contrary to national law and would also be illegal in countries like Sweden and Germany.
I think too you have rather a lot of Catholics - though some of these have been infected by the anti-science virus of US evangelicism. But my main experience of US religion has been Kentucky Baptists and NY Reform Judaism, the only Catholics I’ve met were from St. Louis. I am not pretending to any kind of expertise in this area.
That’s strange, on the BLUE Facebook he wished everyone a happy Festivus and declared he was an Atheist.
14 Likes
Sure, but it’s the roots. And we’re not that far from those roots - especially some form of Calvinist thought (which is part of the roots of what many call the “protestant work ethic”). The direction of European protestantism has also changed to a much more secular direction, but that doesn’t mean the roots aren’t there in both places.
Catholicism has different influences in different parts of the country. Where I live (in the rural areas of my state/region), you still have people who will unironically use “papist” to describe Catholics and don’t consider them or Mormons real Christians. But in places where much of my Catholic family lives, it’s the dominant religion.
7 Likes
Like Joseph Guttnick, he can just hire non-jews to run it for him.
