Nebraska state senator's bill would make churches pay property tax

My first thought was essentially this. The law sounded appealing to me in theory. Then I started thinking about what I know about the finances of a lot of religious institutions, and I wondered if I’d entirely like the results. My guess is most downtown congregations would need to get rid of their buildings and start renting space for services–or else move out onto cheap land. The megachurches wouldn’t blink.

My town center has absorbed a couple of deconsecrated churches, but I wouldn’t actually relish seeing have to figure out to do with many more.

If we made churches pay taxes, wouldn’t that give them the right to have a say in political matters? I thought we didn’t want that.

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It looks as though you’ve just explained why religious groups are default tax-exempt. Taxing by itself might not violate the free-exercise clause, bur requiring lots of hoop-jumping could easily do so.

Do you see any intrinsic problem in a property tax? It applies just to the real estate as real estate. I doesn’t require any accounting. It doesn’t require the state to determine anything at all other than that the property is on the tax rolls.

A sacrifice is an offering; a prayer does not make an entire activity an offering. Think of a Hellenistic pagan context. There was apparently often an invocation to all of the gods before a meal. The meal was not a sacrifice. However, it was apparently the custom in the invocation to tip out some wine to the gods. The wine tipped out was a sacrifice. If my tradition requires me to seek a blessing before or during any major act, I will seek a blessing before killing an animal or harvesting a field. That does not make the harvest a sacrifice and similarly does not make the killing a sacrifice.

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Well, the first two that come to my mind are the Norse Blot and the Celtic Samhain, but there’s a few parallels in various aboriginal beliefs and some of the African diasporic religions.

The Blot (pronounced. “bloat”) is the slaughter of an animal (often a boar) to be served at the Sumbel- a sort of ritual feast centered around toasting the gods, ancestors, and others deemed worthy of honoring. In the modern context, the feast itself is often referred to as a Blot, but the word properly means “sacrifice”. Other things such as wine, honey, grains, etc. are sometimes offered up as sacrifices in addition to or in lieu of an animal- Which is why the term is used more broadly. The sacrifice is seen as a way of gratefully sharing and including the gods in the folk’s good fortune- giving back, as it were.

The Celtic holiday of Samhain (pronounced “sow-en”) is the holiday which our Halloween is based upon, so it’s actually somewhat topical. Because they were an agrarian society, their holidays follow the seasons: Beltaine is the planting, Lughnasadh is the harvest of the grain, and Samhain is the culling of the livestock. (it also serves as the New Year and festival of the ancestors/dead) In this context, “sacrifice” literally means “to make sacred”, and the butchering was a central focus of the holiday. To make the point more clearly, they did not sacrifice cattle because it was a holiday, they built a holiday around the slaughter.

Also worth noting is that both of these cultures used cattle as the primary measure of wealth- So any slaughtering of a cow or bull was also a literal sacrifice in the sense of a great personal cost or trade off.

In certain Native American traditions, hunting was itself an act with religious significance, and different rituals, blessings, and thanksgiving could be attached to everything from dressing beforehand to the resulting meal. They believe that all plants, animals, and men are brothers in spirit, and that what they are doing is literally asking the animal to sacrifice itself so they can live by eating it’s flesh.

For all of these cultures, the connection to the gods, earth, and natural cycles was a central philosophy, so the acts of planting, harvesting, hunting and preparing food were essentially religious occasions. Joseph Campbell went so far as to speculate that guilt over killing for food was the very foundation of religion itself (I think it was in The Way Of The Animal Powers).

In Santeria, the Ebo is generally a sacrifice of food, alcohol, small gifts etc. to the Orisha (spirits/godforms), but the “greater” version involves animal sacrifice. In their belief system, the Orisha feed on the blood/life of the animal, while the remaining portion is shared in a community feast. (I believe there is a similar concept in Judaism where the blood needs to be drained because it harbors the spirit or life force of the animal.)

My own tradition is largely influenced by the Celts and Norse, and I spent some time on a farm purely for the sake of connecting to the life/death/rebirth cycle. So in my own practice, I killed chickens to provide food, but I did it in a way that strongly emphasized acknowledging and thanking the gods and nature spirits, as well as the animal itself for it’s sacrifice: Literally giving it’s life to sustain my own. I also watched a professional (secular) butcher slaughter pigs- It was a very different experience with no gratitude or recognition of any spiritual component, and really hammered in that idea of sacrifice=sacred.

Now, it’s my understanding that the sochet is trained not only in butchering, but also the religious aspect required to properly follow Jewish law and have an appropriate “fear of G-d”. Nearly every source I see on kosher butchering includes the term “ritual slaughter”.

Now, in your tradition- and correct me if I’m wrong- an offering to G-d is a sacrifice, where what’s offered to man is just food. In Santeria, the sacrifice is the blood for the Orisha, and the body is left for the worshipers. In Norse/Celtic tradition, the animal is ritually slaughtered and portions given both as offering and as food. In Native tradition, it is the animal who is making the sacrifice, not the hunter.

So again, aside from the parallels I see with my own tradition, I think there’s a pretty reasonable justification for applying the term sacrifice whenever the slaughter involves some sort of ritualistic religious component- Which I think the kosher process clearly does.

Sorry that’s a bit longwinded- I’ve spent a lot of years looking at this sort of thing. Also, read Joseph Campbell. Like, relevant or not, it’s totally worth it.

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Does that mean you have to eat lutefisk? Because really- Ewww.

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They already do anyway. At least make them pay for their results.

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Not sure why I’m getting involved in this because it’s not my argument, but your question made me think of a number of Native American tribes with the custom to offer a prayer and thanks for the sacrifice every time a hunter killed an animal for food.

edited to add: I see MikeTheBard covered this already.

First off thank you for your detailed reply. I’m unclear if Blot or Samhain are currently practiced in the forms you described but those and your other examples help me understand based on past pagan practices where you are coming from.

  • To clear up a few things regarding kosher slaughter: it is correct that the blood must be drained from the corpse of the animal to make it fit to consume. The source here is in the dietary laws from Leviticus 17:11. The laws of sacrifice are defined elsewhere. This is worth mentioning since we do not derive laws from unrelated areas of the Torah, the dietary law section does not affect the sections on offerings.
  • During Temple era Judaism, some of the blood was used during formal sacrifices as part of the ceremony whereby some of the blood was sprinkled around the sacrificial altar. However the blood itself was not part of the offering on the altar itself. Despite thousands of years of debate on this and every other topic in the Torah, there is no clear agreed reason why blood is used at all in Temple sacrifice rituals but it is quite clear that blood is not part of the offering itself. Note also that animal sacrifice is only one of many required types.
  • In any case this is academic in that since the Romans destroyed the second Temple in the year 70 by the Western calendar, we have no place to offer sacrifices yet we are contented to be obliged to eat only kosher slaughtered meat the same as we were before and during the temple era.

Certainly the method of slaughter follows a fixed ritual, but that does not make it a sacrifice. See my above bullet points again. The rituals involved are quite distinct from each other in methodology. In a slaughterhouse which has a kosher production line, the blood goes down the same drains as the non kosher production lines, it is not reserved for any ritual act as it would be in the case of a formal sacrifice. Also I assure you that a modern slaughterhouse, or even the back yard of a farm where animals might be schected is completely different from the Temple in Jerusalem.

The solution for Nebraska is easy - they just need to make sure that the new Megachurch of Satan pays taxes as well.

Why not just get rid of “Religious” from 501©(3)? Why is it even there? It’s not like it is similar to the rest of the category. It looks shoehorned in (although I don’t see where sports comes in either; why not put that in 501©(7) with the rest of the recreation clubs?)

You mean the Constitution? That’s not easy to ‘‘undo’’.

There’s always http://www.churchbrew.com/ but I agree, you can only do that about once per city and have it still be cool.

Because they could then simply switch from Religious to Education. Or even Charitable, for that matter. There are too many ways that a church could still remain being a 501©(3) even with taking away the purely religion bit.

Exactly how does it violate the first amendment? DO you think tht you paying taxes if you d0) violates your First Amendment rights?

Do you think making everyone else pay the share religions (nothing more than another business, selling shoddy goods) is right?

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That is an awfully nice building you have there. Looks like it is worth $100,000,000 so your property taxes will be $8,000,000. Oh… you don’t have enough to pay that? Well we will just have to sell it at the sheriff’s auction.

This is a fine example of why we need more atheists in politics.

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True. But at least they’d have to justify their tax-free status by their educational or charitable works – and risk getting it pulled if auditors find that that the expenditures on those aren’t really comparable to their income.

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How about using whether or not the church claims things are “copyrighted” or not? Seems to me that any church that sues people for unauthorized copying or printing its holy writings (hello, L. Ron), they ought not to be given tax free status.

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