Not just Germany: the NSA has been spying on France's leaders since at least 1995

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Maybe the whole FIFA knockdown is just the administration’s way of saying to world leaders, “See? See what could happen to you?”

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In other news, there is gambling in Rick’s casino. Spying on foreign leaders is what spies are supposed to do. Does anyone really think that France isn’t spying on us too? France is particularly notorious for industrial espionage and has been for many years.


The French were spying on the British at least as far back as the '70’s. Check out the historical document below:


I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the US has been spying on the leaders of every major foreign nation for as long as it has had the capability of spying on the leaders of every major foreign nation.

I mean, what do people think the CIA does? Raise ponies?


From outside the US we’re pretty convinced it’s an embarrassment to your nation and just leaves a mess everywhere it goes … :frowning:


Stuff like Iran-Contra, mostly.

Overthrowing democratic regimes, training terrorists, propping up puppet states, drugs trafficing, that sort of thing.

I guess the problem with the CIA isn’t just what it does, but that it’s also so comically inept at it that it gets caught all the time.

Or maybe it’s meant to, so we don’t notice the others…


I never said they were good at their jobs, just that we have an agency dedicated to spying, so the idea that we are spying on France’s leaders shouldn’t be shocking to anyone.

Hell, if it turned out that we weren’t spying on France’s leaders since at least 1947 when the CIA was founded, my opinion of our intelligence apparatus would be even lower than it already is (which is pretty f’ing low… except for Chevy Chase who is clearly an amazing spy)


“You have a nice administration there, be a shame if… anything happened to it. Things BREAK, don’t they?”


You realize the agency in question here is NSA not CIA right?

Does it really matter which of our spy agencies is spying on France’s leaders?

I mean, if it was the DMV that was spying on France’s leaders, that would be news.


They fall under different mandates, budgets, and oversight, so yes. I’m not saying it makes it any more “news”, just conflating the two muddies the discussion.

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I’m sorry, they are both intelligence agencies dedicated to espionage. Their mandates are effectively identical. The NSA does signal intelligence where the CIA does human intelligence. They both spy. They both share information with each other freely.

Anyone who is shocked by the fact that our foreign intelligence agencies spy on other countries has apparently not watched a spy movie in the last 40 years.


Not at all shocked that they do it. Just rather dismayed that they’re really, really bad at it and that the USA is really rather two-faced about it all. Public flag waving for democracy and human rights. Anti-democratic skullduggery and human rights abuses in the shadows … :unamused:


I wouldn’t say they share freely, as there has been a lot of competition between the 3 letter agencies over the years.

I’m still not sure why you are focused on people being “shocked” either. I never made a statement about being shocked, just that you got the agency entirely wrong. If you think it matters so little maybe you should just say USA or Obama, or whatever.

Listen in on American citizens? Screw that shit. Needs to stop, absent real probable cause and a warrant.

Listen in on foreign countries? Go for it. More we know, the better.

If you don’t spy on your friends, how do you know they’re your friends in the first place?


Perhaps it is academic, but I am with @tropo on this. There is a difference, they shouldn’t be conflated, and there are different implications.

The CIA starts conflicts, the NSA gets others to start conflicts.


A new release of top secret NSA docs by Wikileaks shows the US spy-agency has intercepted the phone conversations of the past three French presidents, the French ambassador to the USA, and others.

I’m going to go with… So?

If you think for one second the French haven’t been very happy to engage in espionage of Americans (particularly American technology firms) you’re living under a rock. This is the way of the world, and while French and German career politicians express shock and dismay, their security apparatuses would kill to accomplish what the US has, in reverse.


sigh many of us in the security, military industrial complex still have respect for treaties, rule of law, and statutes that aren’t secret.

The attitude of, “obviously it has to be this way” is beyond unhelpful. I know you are pointing out an observation… But come on.

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