It’s also a feedback loop. In the U.S., there are so many costs associated with both parents working full time with a child (child care, two sets of work clothes, lunches, transportation needs, higher costs for convenience such as hiring a cleaning service, taking work clothes to the dry cleaners, etc.) that you have to do the math on which is cheaper, one income and lower costs or two incomes and higher costs. And since women’s jobs generally pay less and have a less secure career path, it makes more sense for the mom to leave paid work at least temporarily while the kids are little. Which then means she’s behind in experience and years on the job when she tries later for promotions, and employers are more likely to assume that she’ll just leave again with the next kid. Plus, the younger woman just hired is assumed to be likely to follow the same path, so she doesn’t get promoted into the better career track, etc. etc.
Indeed! And if you decide to forego family altogether, well… what’s wrong with you? And if a woman on a career path left her family for her career? Oh boy! Forget that. Double standards for that shit, all around. I’ve personally seen this in action, too. No matter what choice a man makes regarding family, he’s lauded, while women are sort of getting it from all sides.
And the choices available to upper class and middle class women (especially white women) are abundant when compared to what working class women of color have open to them, which is of course, the topic of this article.
It’s all exhausting, especially when people just roll their eyes and say “well you have choices, so it’s not a REAL problem.”
I’m not going to dispute that (though I doubt it’s the only cause of the wage gap), but what do you want to do about it? Regardless of why, those are choices about work/life balance. Should we tell women not to make those choices? Force employers to cover it?
I mean, I’m not trying to be combative here, I just really don’t understand what the ask is.
Its not choice. Its simply gender discrimination. College graduates, in the same field, are being paid differently, and the only difference is gender.
This has been studied ad-nauseum. I mean, you can google this for days.
What we want, what “the ask” is for this to stop. To pay the same qualified persons the same rate regardless of gender. AND that white women, like myself, who earn closer to 90% of what a similarly educated white man would earn, that we pay attention to our WoC sisters who are earning LESS than we are.
The ask is two-fold: 1) end the wage gap 2) admit that it is worse for WoC.
And even in those few careers that pay women more initially all pay women less by mid-career!
http://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2015/08/when-women-out-earn-men.html#.VfcqyBFViko
Is it babies? If so, why does having children only affect women negatively? Not all women get maternity leave in the US. And even if they do its a pittance. So why are women penalized for making babies? It makes no sense, we need babies! Do men never have to leave early because the school called? Do men never have to come in late because the bus got cancelled? I’m sure you would all argue this is not the case. So what is happening? Why are women being paid less by mid-career? Why do men get a boost to their income when they have children but women don’t?
This is so much a bigger issue than career choice.
Also, last thought: this “force employers to cover it” mentality is such an American thing I don’t even know how to parse it. In Canada mat-leave is 12 months (its more complicated than that, but lets make shit simple and say 12 months). Its government funded through our taxes and contributions to employment insurance. It literally costs the employer nothing! Ok fine, next to nothing, there’s some legal and benefits things, I don’t know I don’t have kids! BUT thats not the point! The point is, its there, and the employer is only “forced” to adhere to our labour laws. AKA - don’t fire someone because they’re pregnant. Don’t fire someone because they’re on mat-leave. And you have to take them back when the time is up. Funnily enough, companies aren’t going bankrupt left and right! No country with mat-leave is!
Seriously, I think y’all will have a better time selling the idea of national mat-leave than you will universal healthcare!
Those studies are conflating all college degrees, though, and obviously not all college degrees are of equal value.
Like I said, if you want to go down the from each his ability, to each his need route, I’m there with you, but it seems like you have one foot in and one out. Are you arguing that an engineer should be paid the same rate as a nurse? Well, ok, but what does gender have to do with that?
The results are the same in studies that control for type of degree and industry. The gender wage gap is real and exists in every industry, though it’s more pronounced in some industries than others.
https://www.fastcompany.com/3053226/what-the-gender-pay-gap-looks-like-by-industry
Er, did you read your link? It says that when you control for other factors, the gender pay gap is in the single digits. That doesn’t even vaguely support the 20%+ gap being discussed.
Yes, meaning even the subset of women who weren’t hindered from pursuing the same educational and professional opportunities as their male counterparts still can’t expect equal compensation.
Literally none of those say that. I mean sure, if they were saying that, you’d have a point, but they’re not.
They’re comparing same qualifications.
Glamour magazine did a video series having people the same age in the same career with similar backgrounds reveal their salaries, all but one the man earned more.
Why?
And to your point about nurses and engineers. How about we pay nurses more than engineers? Frankly I need them more than I need engineers. We have way too many engineers these days, re-train them all as nurses I say!
That’s not entirely accurate. The studies that have looked into the remaining gap after you normalize the data can’t say what the cause of the gap is. There isn’t data to say its discrimination. Without knowing the cause, it’s hard to fix the problem.
It seems like you’re expecting an unobtainable level of precision.
It seems like you’ve resolved that pay equity for gender is an unobtainable ideal so we should all just give up and accept it. Nuts to that.
They’ve controlled for every measurable factor EXCEPT discrimination based on gender. That doesn’t mean the discrimination is happening intentionally or even consciously, but it’s clearly real.
As I said upstream, this has been studied ad nauseum.
But what do I know, I’m just a woman, I guess I’m lucky to even have a job!
And just to beat this dead horse some more: I’m not blaming “the men” - this is societies fault, its the culture we live in. Because it doesn’t matter who is doing the hiring, we give men more, even the women doing the hiring do it!
In a randomized double-blind study (n = 127), science faculty from research-intensive universities rated the application materials of a student—who was randomly assigned either a male or female name—for a laboratory manager position. Faculty participants rated the male applicant as significantly more competent and hireable than the (identical) female applicant. These participants also selected a higher starting salary and offered more career mentoring to the male applicant. The gender of the faculty participants did not affect responses, such that female and male faculty were equally likely to exhibit bias against the female student.
I repeat: we need to address our unconscious and inherent biases against women, and racialized peoples in the workplace. White women need to acknowledge that WoC have it worse. And the only way forward is to admit that is happening, and we can’t even frakking do that! /sigh
It could also be based on negotiating ability.
Edit: or willingness to negotiate
Or it could be something else… so hard to choose… I wonder what it could be…
Ah, so it’s just that women are inherently inferior at negotiation.
Right, no sexism to be seen around here.
You know I’d laugh… if this wasn’t the umpty-billionth time I’ve had this conversation.
Its just all so boring and depressing…
This is good data the supports the assertion that women are paid less based on gender. The pay gap numbers used in the article (and everywhere) aren’t normalized and are therefore an easy target to dismiss.
