I fail to see how I have denigrated anyone. I may denigrate you, for instance for this straw man argument. I’ve already said that I regard Manning as heroic. You also want me to say that I accept him as a woman?
I fail to see how comparing trans people to somebody pretending to be Romanian and calling them delusional is anything close to civil discourse. Also, that wasn’t a straw man argument.
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What I want is for you to respect her as a woman. Then what you say about her will come out correct naturally.
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Yes, as that plays a large part in her going to the army, seeing the wrongs, her troubles there, and her releasing the information.
If you can’t recognize her as a woman, or at least respect her decision, all the other platitudes you levy on her are hollow and worthless.
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Chelsea? You’ve got the choice of all the female names from history… and you chose Chelsea?
Still Manning is a very brave person.
Is it really that difficult for you to simply accept another person’s self-identification as it applies to them? Manning has also chosen to go by a different name that reflects her identity, so would you feel it’s also acceptable to deny that change and continue using the previous name because you don’t feel she looks like a ‘Chelsea’ to you?
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What’s wrong with Chelsea? It’s a great name.
I predict a fairly high correlation between people who think that it’s sick and wrong to be transgender and people who think that it’s evil and wrong to release the information that Manning released. (And, likewise, a strong corrleation between peoplle who have the opposite position on both issues.)
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So what would be the legal thinking behind having Manning wait until after sentencing to announce this? Not wanting to muddy the case or the media coverage?
I’m trying to parse this statement from the Army:
All inmates are considered soldiers and are treated as such with
access to mental health professionals, including a psychiatrist,
psychologist, social workers and behavioral science noncommissioned
officers with experience in addressing the needs of military personnel
in pre- and post-trial confinement.The Army does not provide hormone therapy or sex-reassignment surgery
for gender identity disorder.
A couple of thoughts:
-
I don’t think gender identity is a mental disorder. And while I recognize that gender identity disorder (GID), or gender dysphoria as it is now called, is recognized by the APA, I think it may be a mistake. I think any mental disorder coming from gender identity is due to issues with society and family. If a person is transgender and has other mental illnesses, then they should be diagnosed as is, not pushed into the GID box.
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The Army has apparently diagnosed Chelsea Manning as having GID. It is a little hypocritical of them to acknowledge this as a condition but to refuse to treat it as the APA would recommend. This implies that they only find the diagnosis useful as far as being able to stigmatize and discriminate against Manning for being transgender.
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It is rich that the military claims that they give access to mental health services during pre-trial confinement.
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Is there any particular reason the picture’s description is using the wrong pronouns?
The BBC quotes her lawyer in saying that:
“Chelsea didn’t want to have this be something that overshadowed the case.”
edit: thanks Captain!
When Manning sent the photograph (what the caption is about), he was using male pronouns. Now she’s not, so we change.
I do think it’s interesting that the Army diagnosed her, but basically refuses to treat her. Then again, they expect her to uphold the Constitution except when she upholds the Constitution, so maybe that’s not so abnormal for them.
I’m often torn about whether or not GID is a mental disorder. If it’s not a mental disorder, but is still some type of disorder, then it’d be a physical one. But I don’t think there’s really any concrete evidence for physical aspects of GID that can be used to confirm a diagnosis. If it’s not a disorder at all then I would think there’d be nothing to treat, thus removing any need for any medical professional, insurance company, healthcare system, etc., to provide hormone replacement therapy or sex reassignment surgery except on a purely cosmetic basis. So because of all of that, I tend to be most comfortable with it being a disorder that requires treatment should the person in question want it.
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There’s some nuance that gets lost here. The diagnosis is for diagnosing a problem – that is, you go in because something’s bugging you, you’ve got some symptoms, and the cause might be GID. That doesn’t mean the thing itself is necessarily a problem: if you think you’re a different gender and that thought isn’t something you have a problem with, it’s not something the APA is concerned with. From this statement, looks like Chelsea’s not having a problem with it, so it shouldn’t be a diagnosis, even if the military decides to misuse the rules in order to prevent her from transitioning while she’s in jail.
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I think of it as a birth defect. You would treat someone who had bad kidneys, a cleft palate, whatever. Any of the parts of physical transition is done on its own for non-transgender reasons. It’s just that transgender people who want to transition have to do a whole package of them.
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Ah, that makes sense then. Though considering how little TV news coverage I saw of the case, it’d be tough for the coverage of the case to be overshadowed.
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If it is a mental disorder, it’s not one that causes a loss of function. I don’t see any need to treat it unless the patient wants that. It would probably be traumatic if we tried to force treatment on children, though. Growing up is hard enough as it is.
Well said, Maggie. The other, possibly far more important, issue in this case is that military prisons, unlike a growing number of penitentiaries in the US, deny prisoners medical treatment in the form of hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery. Nevertheless, Chelsea is part of a significant population of trans° prisoners who are currently incarcerated by the military.
It has been argued, and many judges have agreed, that to deny medical treatment to prisoners is inhumane. I believe Chelsea and her team will work to bring about change in the military’s medical protocols for trans* prisoners.
For many transgendered and genderqueer people, and for our advocates, being transgendered is a biological fact, NOT an “alternative lifestyle choice,” or a manifestation of Satan’s meddling, as so many opponents of trans° rights avow.
Manning’s advocates and existing groups who have already won the right of transition for federal and state prisoners will extend their efforts to the military justice system. Their goal will be to bring humane treatment and a humane, informed code of conduct to the treatment of trans* prisoners.
On a different note, congratulations Chelsea! You just emerged from 3 years of torture to begin a new phase in your life and your career as an activist. Well played, girl!
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True, but that gets back to the “no physical evidence” part, at least so far. If someone has a cleft palate, you can see it. If they have bad kidneys, you can see in their blood or urine where they aren’t functioning properly. You can’t detect transsexuality other than through self-identification (and possibly therapy where one doesn’t quite know what to call their feelings). That’s the difficult part.
I’m assuming you’re not transgender or don’t know a lot of transgender people yourself? It can cause a tremendous loss of function through depression and anxiety, leading to many transgender people killing themselves if they can’t do anything about it. I agree 100% that treatment should never be forced on anyone, just like I don’t think someone who is depressed needs to be forced to take anti-depressants. Who said it should be mandatory?
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