Pipelines considered pointless: Big oil seems to be (finally) abandoning Canada's filthy tar sands

Tight regulations are only a show of paper unless they are enforced. When people had looked at that a few years ago, as for instance reported here and here, they didn’t find much indication of even proper records. Maybe you know something that proves things have gotten better since, but otherwise it doesn’t seem like much to celebrate.

When did you check? Because even a cursory search found worries about acid rain in Saskatchewan thanks to the oil sands. I couldn’t confirm what particular studies that refers to, but a 2016 paper supports lakes in the area receiving excessive acid deposition downwind of the oil sands.

Note, too, it mentions sulfur dioxide emissions in the western provinces exceeded those of the east by 2006; the last acid rain progress report I could find showed Alberta emitting as much as Ontario and Quebec together. So I think you have gotten a very misleading picture of all this.

8 Likes

Late last year, Shell’s CFO said that he expects oil demand to peak in the next 5 to 15 years from the result of electric vehicles and renewable energy. If oil has reached a peak demand, then the prices will never climb up to their former highs and the Alberta oil sands will never be profitable.

A lot of people have been trying to predict when peak oil will happen and a big part of the unknown is how quickly electric vehicles will catch on. Will they become mainstream or remain a niche product?

One of the hard parts of figuring that out is how much will battery technology change in the coming years. This article from Vox suggests that we are underestimating it. That oil companies who suggest that oil won’t reach peak oil until the 2040’s or 2050’s assume a baseline price for batteries and range of these cars. That it will take until the 2030’s to reach under $30,000 US (adjusted for inflation) and yet this year there will be cars sold around $30,000.

The next 2 years will be really telling with the Tesla Model 3 being available at a base price of around $30,000 and several electric cars coming out from the major car companies with decent ranges between 200 KM to over 300 KM (124 miles to over 186 miles).

4 Likes

“that the prices will never rebound far enough to make it worthwhile to extract it.”

At least we can finally dispense with the Peak Oil nonsense – that we are finally past Peak Peak Oil.

1 Like

What’s the diameter on that pipeline? Maybe we use it for a toboggan course or something.

2 Likes

Who would have thought it was so complex? Nobody knew!

4 Likes

Use it for a budget Hyperloop?

That or maple syrup transport.

10 Likes

Would it be safe for maple syrup transport? A large leak and we could have the Alberta Toffee Sands.

10 Likes

It would be a markedly less unpleasant thing if the ‘peak’ occurs because alternatives get cheap enough that it just isn’t worth the trouble of developing any of the more annoying deposits; rather than because there simply aren’t any remaining options where the energy extracted can get close to breaking even with the energy required to extract; but all ‘peak oil’ really requires is that oil production enter a long term, effectively irreversible, decline; which seems like it would be fulfilled either through grim scarcity or through competitive alternatives; albeit with markedly different side effects.

If anything, better alternatives would presumably bring on peak oil faster, since they would increase the portion of known reserves that will never be worth the trouble of exploiting, and unknown reserves that won’t be worth the trouble of prospecting. The softer landing will be a plus, however.

3 Likes

In fact I actually am a biologist working in air quality. Chenille, on the
topic of regulations impacting action, there has been significant changes
recently, Alberta made ones. I would be cautious about where the
information in the global news report comes from, and especially critical
of the wording—including ‘possible’ non compliance which the writer of the
article has carefully used so it does not take away from the tone of his
article. Acid deposition in lakes as per the later article does suggest
acidic precipitation, however the study does not go beyond lakes which
could suggest eutrification. Not eliminating the finger at oil sands, but
rather than eliminate it there are ways to improve—an unnamed oil sands
company had planned to use a nuclear salt reactor to power their
production, which is a greener energy than solar. Be cautious again on Sox
and NOx reports. Ontario has a LOT of contribution from non metered
sources; oil operations are some of the most stringently monitored. Ontario
and Quebec have significant contributions from monitored industries like
cement clinker facilities, but also has a significant portion from non
point anthropogenic sources. I’m not here to really debate who is worse or
better moreso the differing attitudes. If it was suggested to 'shut down’
the manufacturing industry or another industry critical to Ontario or
Quebec’s economic success there would be riots. Instead there are federal
bailouts, incentives, etc. Out here the wheat pool gets disbanded, lumber
is tariffed, oil is a sin on and on. Natural resource utilization is as
much or more a necessity than an over priced bombardier product. People
need wood(BC) for houses, wheat for food, potash for fertilizer and, of
course, uranium(Saskatchewan), coal, (Alberta) or oil/natural gas for heat
and power. My attitude is stop being a part of the problem and work for a
solution. Denigrating something because bay Street allows you not to care
why you have bread or heat is the worst kind of hypocrisy.

nuclear power

…Is never a cheaper source of energy. If they could get Canadian taxpayers to fund it, it would be “cheaper” only to the oil companies.

2 Likes

There are a lot of kinds of hypocrisy.

Are you sure you have correctly identified the worst ?

5 Likes

All I know is that I saw it mooted in an article somewhere. Maybe it was with regard to attempting to reduce the carbon footprint of the tar sands, maybe it was with regard to the oil companies trying to get a government hand out to reduce their costs. It’s been half a decade or longer and I don’t recall.

1 Like

Thing is, everyone here has worked towards a solution. And one part of that is a national green and renewable energy program - a PetroCan for the 21st century.

I was born in Alberta and currently reside in Saskatchewan. While the oil industry was a huge economic engine, it was universally reviles, even in the northern gas city of Grande Prairie.

1 Like

After “peak oil” came all sorts of innovations, maybe we’ll see the same here.

Thank you for your helpful condescension. In the future, I’ll be sure to check in with you before admitting I learned something.

I think he was referring to this:

6 Likes

@Boundegar. Indeed I was!

2 Likes

Isn’t it wonderful how you can be surprised by the difficulty of virtually anything; so long as you blow off the relevant experts hard enough?

3 Likes

It was in 2011 that Bruce Power decided not to proceed with the nuclear facility in Alberta. It is fascinating (and somewhat demoralizing) to see the NIMBY and environmental backlash that was leveled against the project in Alberta. I would call that behaviour short sighted and borderline hypocritical in a province that specializes in mining, drilling and forestry. The project was shelved in the end for undisclosed reasons which I would suggest have more to do with economics than environment but I was quite disappointed.

1 Like

That’s good, then you should know some useful citations. I gave you what I could find on the subject. I know that has limitations, but if you’re going to throw shade and say the straight opposite – no reason to distrust enforcement, SO2 mostly from and acid rain never heard of outside the east – I think it’s impolite not to give anything beyond your say-so.

1 Like