Red Pill, Blue Pill: if Dr Seuss wrote about Men's Rights Advocates

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I can’t even read this, the rhyming scheme and prose are atrocious. The exact opposite of Dr. Seuss. If you’re gonna do parody, you gotta do it at least passably well.


It is so strange to me that the term “friendzone” has become such a battlespace.

I’m so far out of the dating universe – with the same woman for nearly 20 years now – that I can’t say I understand. When I was younger, though, (a) boy meets girl, (b) boy fancies girl, © after a while boy realizes girl doesn’t fancy him, (d) boy vents to his mates that he’s frustrated as his affections aren’t reciprocated now and aren’t likely to in the future (e.g., I’ve been put in the friendzone, I’ve been friendzoned, etc.) and (e) [and I’m guessing this is where the friction is] boy moves on to better things.

Am I missing something? Is a young man deemed to be in the wrong these to say, in effect, “that sucks” and move along?

I’m with you. Same person almost two decades. But there were plenty of times I liked someone and they didnt feel the same way, and vice versa. Honestly one of my big regrets in life is not treating the women that were into me better.

But this ‘friendzone’ thing is weird. It takes (at least) two to tango, and if you have been… Ugh… Friendzoned you are half of the problem.



Yes, quite. I suppose if that’s the use-case of “friendzone” these days, it’s quite a bit narrower than the way I used it back when I wore an onion on my belt. I think of friendzone as the post-rejection denouement, not the needy hanging about in lieu of asking. Best thing I ever finally figured out is to do just ask the woman out. Of course, I figured that out and near-immediately met my now-wife, so never really did take that theory out for a road test.


I think the term itself implies that there is something wrong with being friends with a woman. But of course there is nothing wrong with being bummed out by liking someone who doesn’t feel the same.

Right! I think that shows a level of respect for the other person, that you’re up front and honest about how you feel. And if they say no, well, it hurts, but you move on. Too many guys just don’t get that and think they’re entitled to women’s attention. No, they’re not.


Females can be sad or glad
But females are all very bad

Oh, dear God, if this is the accepted view of an MRA is, then here’s the accepted view of what a feminist is:

I mean, I get it, controversial views on MRAs and feminism are are probably great for pageviews, but it doesn’t inspire me to run out and buy a Cory Doctorow book when he’s spouting strawmanny nonsense.

So… don’t? Just a thought.


It would appear “accepted view” doesn’t always mean the same thing.


I’ve never personally been “friendzoned.” It’s not a boast. I don’t and never did look at it that way. Either she and I were into each other… Or we weren’t. Very simple. No need for all this gender-centric back-justification.



I think sometimes it’s a language problem - you’re either too shy or don’t know how to approach someone in a socially acceptable way. I imagine it can be particularly difficult for women when the culture says that the man should be the one to ask. Everybody knew my wife was into me before I did. She gave hints, but it got ridiculous before I noticed. I just saw her as a friend up to that point.

I think it can also be that you do care about someone as a friend, and don’t want to make it seem like it’s just sexual. Sometimes people don’t read each other very well, and I guess it can hurt to feel that you’re not even on the other person’s romantic radar. That’s when it would be good to have a friend to pick you up rather than a red pill website to lie to you about the way the world really works.

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For some guys, asking a woman out is like public speaking; so terrifying that you avoid it at all cost.

Many a man has found himself in the horror dream-state wherein he finds himself alone with the woman of his desire and at the same time terrified to shift gears for fear of losing any time with her if she rejects his move.


Ah a Dostoevsky fan?

I am sorry I can say nothing more consoling to you, for love in action is a harsh and dreadful thing compared with love in dreams. Love in dreams is greedy for immediate action, rapidly performed and in the sight of all. Men will even give their lives if only the ordeal does not last long but is soon over, with all looking on and applauding as though on the stage. But active love is labour and fortitude, and for some people too, perhaps, a complete science. .

And many a woman was stalked and killed for some men’s belief that they deserve their love to always be requited in precisely the same manner as they wish.


Too bad it isn’t all as good as the friendzone bit.

By the way, I just read that linked article about the Red Pill “movement” again, and found it striking how well it still works if you replace “redpiller” with “redditor”. Huh.

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I suppose one final thread here which is confusing to me in trying to under the term as it’s used today, why the term seems to raise such a fuss – should the young man in this equation, having found his affections not reciprocated, be under some obligation to continue to accept the level of friendship the young woman had hoped for?

That is, seeing that there’s no romantic relationship in the offing, is he within his rights to say, “nuts to this” and pretty much put that relationship (friendship or otherwise) into the dustbin of history?

Again, my lenses have 20 years of dust on them, but I do recall situations where the young woman was quite put out that the young man – confronted with the gravity of her position (which is her position alone to take, of course) – signaled, in effect, “I have no interest in being just friends and if want merely to be just friends, I want no part in this, or you.” Now, we should hope he would be both dignified and polite about it, but “fuck this shit” is a perfectly reasonable reaction.

For me, it’s far worse than public speaking.
I am actually trying to fix that, and it’s getting better, but a phobia is, by definition, irrational. It’s not as simple as thinking your way around it.

I hate hate hate HATE traditional gender roles, especially as a straight guy who likes stereotypically non-straight-guy things (baking, theatre, singing, emotionally fulfilling novels and movies, etc. - even cooking and cleaning to a lesser extent). I’m not in favour of a return to the way things were x hundred years ago, but my romantic, rule-loving nature makes me almost wish for a return to formalized courtship. But, you know, without all of the misogyny.

In the meantime, a culture where girls are just as comfortable asking guys out as the reverse would be a welcome improvement.


I think that’s a great question, and I think the answer is dependent upon the people involved. If the guy decides its too painful, he’s well within his right to say that to her. I do think he should be honest about that. But I do think he should acknowledge that she’s well within her right to reject him. If it comes from a place of this expectation that all women are obligated to men, then it’s a bit more problematic than two people who just aren’t in the same place at the same time. and this goes the other way, too. There are times when a woman is interested in a man, and they don’t reciprocate, and then she’s within her right to reject his friendship, too.

My concern is that these things aren’t gendered in a way that assumes “normal behavior” for one or the other gender, if that makes sense…

Agreed. to get there, we need a culture that accepts a range of behavior from all concerned, rather than some stilted stereotypes we’re all supposed to conform to.