Way to ignore almost all history before 2008 in what you said. The people forced the Democrats right and the further they advertise going left the less votes they get outside of Obama in 2008.
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I voted for Clinton.
I did see the gravity of what Trump was bringing, and that was the only reason why I voted for Clinton. Fear of a fascistic madman is not a tenable campaign strategy though.
Don’t I wish. The beige pseudo centrist* faction of the Democratic party needs to go away, and it needs to go away like ten years ago. What the US needs is social democracy, if not democratic socialism.
*I consider Bernie Sanders style social democracy to be centrist, and US centrism to be far right. The rest of the western world seems to agree with me.
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I don’t understand the sneering way so many people say “strategic” or “tactical” voting.
Surely many people who refused to vote at all, rather than support Hillary “Flawed” Clinton, did so because they wanted to “send a message.” They might have supposed that by not supporting the party’s nominee they would force the party to meet them more on the progressive side of things. But this is every bit as “strategic” or “tactical” as holding your nose and voting for Hillary. It’s just terrible strategy. Not voting says only “I didn’t bother to vote,” and not “Here’s what I want.”
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With age comes wisdom, such as, perhaps, that choosing heads of state is exactly the same as picking apartments. A person who respected his elders and betters somewhat less might say that your argument is “I can’t afford any of the apartments so, rather than stay in mom’s basement, I guess I’ll just become homeless,” but quaking in deference to your grey hairs of experience as I am, I can’t possibly make such an argument.
It’s one thing, honored elder, to compromise on a candidate that is not as we wish but which we could still see as president, and quite another to falsify our preferences entirely giving mandate to and legitimizing a monster.
Now, as the benefit of your extreme old age has no doubt taught you, the United States are spectacularly bad for this type of resistance because of the moribund two party system, but fundamental change grows only out of crisis and the Orange One has thoughtfully provided one for us. Might as well use it.
Or, venerable one, we can wait for him to be defeated, and watch the Overton window drift ever rightward until the choice is between a candidate who promises to cut social security and the one who wants poor people in camps.
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I thought it was about her being all cozy with the banks and the oligarchs, personally. I still voted for her (besides Trump) but a little something died inside when I did.
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So you’re a Wall Street and Drone stikes fan, eh?
That’s her policy. Same as Obama’s.
I’m personally sick of us killing people with drones. I’m even more sick of us doing it to American citizens with an executive order and no trial.
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And then later the Comey came out and caused undecided voters to break Trump. Clinton had her flaws, but she was also rat-fucked good and hard.
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I couldn’t find the exact image, but this’ll do; it reminds me of the Democratic party during this election.
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They obviously don’t teach this in schools anymore, but in ANY two party system you invariably MUST vote strategically (i.e. the lesser of two evils), and in many cases you must vote cynically (the evil of two lessers). I appreciate that Bernie captured a whole bunch of idealistic newbs and snowflakes (who all suddenly realized “Holy shit! The system is rigged, unfair, and utterly corrupt! Wah wah wah! I’m not going to have my free pony!”) but unfortunately nobody took the time to have The Talk with them – always wear a condom when voting.
Don’t like the idea of voting strategically, then you must eliminate the Two Party system.
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Not really, which is why I voted for Sanders in the primaries. But he wasn’t on my general election ballot and neither was anyone else who would have made a better President than Hillary.
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What does not voting bring you instead of voting for what most aligns with your message? Was there any state where only Trump and Clinton were on the ballot?
And what about the majority of the ballot?
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Not sure about that. For example, Abraham Lincoln, a Republican, got only 1,865,908 votes in 1860. I’m pretty sure Trump got many more than that.
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No, they count exactly the same. It’s just that (a) citizens of various states count differently with citizens of small states, whatever their gender and race counting more and (b) the voters for the minority candidate, whatever the candidate, and whatever the race and gender in most states counting not at all.
And yes, more people voted for Hillary but that’s not relevant because that’s not how you people—Americans, I mean—pick your presidents. Most federal states have an electoral college of some description. Germany does, for instance. Though I guess you could copy the Russians who have a very federal system (with states and oblasts and all sorts) but select their president on straight popular vote with a runoff election. Replace that with preference voting for greater flexibility and you might be looking at a winner. But until you fix that—and you should—talking about the popular vote is a red herring.
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Nukes are so much better.
It’s never a choice between hypothetical ideal candidates, it’s always a compromise.
If Trump had his druthers he’d do it inside the country and with a tweet. We’ve got some bad hombres here, remember?
My point is you’ve got to look at things on balance. If drone strikes are the thing that tips it for you then fine, but it’s pretty shitty to assume someone is OK with everything a candidate they voted for does.
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Bernie understands how the system actually works, and I was very impressed with him throughout the whole election year.
Precisely this! Yes indeed, they’ve definitely forced the Democratic Party to possibly hunker down and re-think their entire message. But unfortunately they’ve just conceded to Trump.
It’s rather like the way I play chess – in a bold move I’ve daringly saved my favorite piece – the horsey – because dammit, I like horses! But unfortunately, I’ve left my king open to checkmate.
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Not voting says “I don’t have the time or fortitude in stand in line for several hours in November” in a lot of places. I’m lucky to be in Oregon where I can vote by mail, most of the country doesn’t. Blame the Republican secretaries of state for closing down polling stations like in North Carolina, not the voters who couldn’t get to the polls.
I highly recommend a book called the “big sort” by “bill bishop”. He makes it clear that the excuse of voter suppression is a myth in the big picture, That the electoral college will be more and more important as the divide between the two camps grows physically by the “sorting”…
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I think this was the most annoying thing as a Hillary supporter (yes, I fully supported her). She was too reserved, and needed to get out in front and show that she had no fucks to give for their email games. But her battle scars weighed her down too much, made her too cautious. Alas.
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I didn’t (and won’t) blame people who couldn’t vote.
I was talking about people who chose to vote for nobody rather than vote for Hillary.
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