I presume you missed me saying “…based on years of attending (and occasionally helping run) literary-SF cons…”?
So, yeah, personal experience. Attended my first Worldcon in 1978. Not a writer myself, but have lots and lots of writer and editor friends. Been to the panels I mentioned.
As for finding out the back ground, the authors
picture is often on their books, on their websites and a host of
information is usually found on their wikipedia page. the publisher
finds out the background of the author because they have a business
relationship with them, have editors work with them, and often meet with
them.
I wonder if the demographics of self-published authors are different?
Yes, I did miss it! Sorry! I was tired and skimming. It’s been a long week…
But still… with all due respect, I’m not sure that personal experience is telling us much here? As important as Worldcon is in shaping the field, not everyone who is interesting in literary sci-fi is going to go - cost to travel there, especially since it moves every year, could be a big obstacle. There is also the problem of perceptions - if POC feel as if they aren’t welcome in the traditional literary sci-fi circles, will they attempt to make themselves known in the field and try to go the more traditional route of getting into the field in the first place. If they see it as a “white” space, where they are likely to be treated as an outsider for their race, it might be a barrier to their attending such conventions.[quote=“Chesterfield, post:22, topic:82152”]
I wonder if the demographics of self-published authors are different?
[/quote]
That’s a good question, actually. I wish I knew. I’d guess it’s more diverse. I also wonder if presses that traditional catered to African American literature and non-fiction also has printed sci-fi over the years.
I suggested “Worldcon audience” as a search string because it’s an easy way to find photos of large groups of SF-lit fans.
Worldcon is not the whole of the fannish experience - there are fanzines, APAs, regional cons, relaxacons, and so on.
I’ve done all those things.
SF-lit fans have been practicing ‘virtual community’ since the mid-30s, at cons, and in letter columns, fanzines and the like, since long before ‘virtual community’ became a buzzword. Some well-known fans have never travelled to a con.
All I can tell you, with all due respect, is that my own experience completely contradicts your speculation. Fandom is a well-known bastion of unconditional acceptance, largely made up of nerds who never felt at home anywhere else, who enthusiastically welcome anyone else who feels at home there.
But not everyone will feel at home there.
Make of that what you will.
God forbid some of the dismal crap written by guys who look like me is set aside in favor of increasing the representation of other points of view. Isn’t there a “POC destroy s&sf” effort going on with Escape Artists? It’s a good start, but nowhere near enough.
Fair enough. I do appreciate your input on this, since you seem involved in literary sci-fi.
I do think it’s worth asking these questions about why these communities have historically been pretty white and seeking out ways to make these communities that congregate around sci-fi/fantasy/etc more actively inclusive. I think talking to the POC in the fandom community about inclusion and if they feel it or not might help us to figure out what’s going on. If POC don’t feel at home when they do go, maybe it’s worth figuring out why that’s so.
It’s not quite the same thing, when we went to an anime convention last year, it was fairly diverse. But location might have something to do with that (ATL). I also know that here in town, there is a popular gaming shop on the East side that’s run by some African American gents (and also attracts a diverse crowd). I’d wonder if the year that Worldcon was at DragonCon (I forget which year that was) if they had a more diverse crowd. DragonCon certainly skewed white the years I went, but it was by no means completely white. But again… location has something to do with this. Dragon*con is a different animal than it used to be, though.
As do I. Which is why I attended the panels described.
Again, yes, no disagreement here.
But I have been “talking to POC in the fandom community” for decades now — not just panel discussions, but late-night room-party conversations, social conversations at the bar, and personal discussions with my POC friends and lovers who are SF writers and/or fans.
And my summary above is what I’ve learned by doing that.
But my initial point wasn’t about whether that fandom is or isn’t welcoming to POC, or whether it’s as correctly egalitarian as it ought to be.
My point was that,. for whatever reason, POC don’t seem to flock to lit-SF fandom, and lit-SF fandom is far and away the most fertile source of new SF/F writers.
So the naive simplifying assumption that the fraction of short-fiction sf/f submitted by POC is the same as the fraction in the general population is… well, unsupported by any evidence, at best.
Frankly, it looks like either laziness and ignorance of the subject, or deliberate statistical manipulation aimed at making things look worse than they are.
NB: I am not, not, NOT claiming that SF fandom is some perfectly egalitarian utopia.
I’m just saying that there’s a major flawed assumption about submissions in that post — and that assumption underlies all the subsequent mathematics.
There’s no evidence to support that assumption, and plenty to contradict it.
And flawed assumptions make for flawed and unreliable conclusions.
Sure - anime fandom is a very different audience (with plenty of overlap, of course).
I don’t think any of the media-based fandoms are as white as old-line lit-SF fandom, in part, perhaps, because media fandom wasn’t really even a thing until the Age of Roddenberry, where diversity was deliberately built in.
Lit-SF fandom itself has become more diverse over the years, in part from the influx of media fans. But it’s still pretty seriously white. And even Trek fandom is whiter than the general population.
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