And if you look back at the post you replied to, you’ll note that I said “games”. As in games released to the public (or even games sold to the public) rather than console games weighted by number of units sold.
The video game market is so huge that everything exists. You want to find misogyny in games? Sure, you can do that. You want to find racism in games? Not too tough. How about strong female characters? Strong male characters? Weak female and male characters? You can find all of those. Whatever thesis you have, you can cherry-pick examples from video games to support it.
I’ll reply only once to you as I am trying to redirect this conversation.
Yes, I do know about feedback loops. Have you taken many classes in Economy?
Did you read all of what I wrote? Currently women make up 40% of gamers, and it’s only recently that we’ve been seeing a lot of pushback against content. Men aren’t typically the ones to speak out against misogyny in any media. It’s most often women. Many men don’t even like to be associated with the term “feminist” - even though all it means is that they support equal rights and opportunities for women.
I think you’ll find that the market is changing, but it isn’t necessarily due to men making any effort for that to happen, but rather because more women are in the market making purchases. Also, do you consider a game like StarCraft II a game specifically “made for male audiences”? The male characters wear heavy armor or long coats, while women (both humans and aliens) pretty much exclusively wear skin tight outfits over large breasts. There’s no eye candy for women, but plenty for men.
On August 3, 2010, Blizzard announced that StarCraft II sold more than one million units worldwide within one day of its release. After two days, when Blizzard began selling the game as a digital download on its website, approximately 500,000 additional units of the game were sold, bringing the total up to 1.5 million worldwide and making it the fastest-selling strategy game of all time. In 2012, Starcraft, and Starcraft II were Blizzard’s top 3 and 4 ranked sellers. Are you seriously trying to tell me that well-designed, high-end, top selling games are just inherently not designed for girls? C’mon now, the game play IS designed for girls. It’s only some specific content that isn’t.
Let me ask you something, have you played SC2? You say “while women (both humans and aliens) pretty much exclusively wear skin tight outfits over large breasts.” Which aliens are you talking about? The Protoss are asexuated and the Zergs are bugs. In Wings of Liberty Jim Raynor is the hero and he displays exagerated secondary sexual characteristics . In the Heart of the Swarm the heroin also does. Fantasy girls have huge tits, fantasy boys have huge pecs and biceps. It’s not sexism, it’s fantastical sexual dimorphism and it’s nothing new.
Also, the fact that people don’t like being called mysoginistic has no bearing on whether they are or not.
Weak female and male characters? You can find all of those. Whatever thesis you have, you can cherry-pick examples from video games to support it.
you could, but that’s not what sarkeesian has done. she’s been looking at some of the largest video game franchises in the industry, games which can be reasonably considered to have the most traction in popular culture. ( suddenly, the ndgt weather vs. climate video comes to mind ).
you can nitpick details i’m sure, but she’s been doing a great job of dissecting gender politics in games. if you listen and reflect on what she has to say: there’s a lot to learn about games, and human nature, in there.
I think sexism, like every other human behaviour, pleasant or not, has a place in fiction. That said, I just played The Last of Us for the first time and the way women (and men) are written in this game, namely as strong and complex characters, is just awesome and adds so much to the experience.
I was actually reluctant to play the game because I knew the main protagonist was teaming up with a young girl and judging from past gaming experiences that meant babysitting a whiny and annoying sidekick (the Resident Evil series or Syphon Filter come to mind).
I´m almost through the game now and not a single “conniving bitch” or “sexy seductress” so far. Especially the main protagonists partner Ellie is badass, funny and likeable. It doesn´t always have to be this way but it should be more often i.m.o., the story is much better for it.
Here’s one important difference: the vast majority of novels published do not fit the “romance novel” formula. It’s not like you have to pore through shelves of books to find a novel that doesn’t have a protagonist who looks like Fabio. If anything, there have probably been more well-written male characters than female characters in the history of literature.
Compare this to the history of video games. While non-sexualized female characters are gradually becoming more common (i.e. Chell from Portal), for decades the industry’s idea of a “strong female character” almost always involved a highly improbable figure and a whole lot of exposed skin—even if their male counterparts were clad head to toe in heavy armor.
technically, that is a kind of cherry-picking. if you want a sample of games that represents the gaming industry you need to select randomly from that population. if you want a sample of games that represents the game playing public then you select the games that are most popular. if you then go on to criticize the sample that represents the game playing public you need to realize that you are also criticizing the game playing public by proxy.
(which is not to say that it’s not a valid criticism, but it goes a long way to explain why gamers take the criticism so personally)
That’s a pretty popular argument, yeah. The short answer is that huge pecs are a male power fantasy but huge boobs are a male sexual fantasy. The longer answer is this (click for bigger):
The Zerg/Human hybrid Sarah Kerrigan has a rather form-fitting outfit though. Not to mention those high heels: are we to believe they were part of her combat uniform before her transformation or do the Zerg have a thing for impractical footwear?
Why is criticism of Sarkeesian always this bug-eyed ranting? Get a grip. We aim to set the bar high for this sort of thing at BB and will spank you with it without a second thought.
First, that looks like fan art. I don’t recall any official art featuring high heels. At least not in the game.
Second, she’s supposed to be a bug-human hybrid. The zergs don’t wear armour. Also I Jim Raynor’s physique is almost as visible as hers. What are you asking, that he wear spandex?
And in her human incarnation she dressed like this:
While most of her male counterparts dressed like this:
I’m not asking for anything, I’m providing evidence to support the assertion that the women in StarCraft are much more sexualized than the male characters. I’m sure there’s some pretext written in there explaining why all the women just happen to wear skin-tight body suits while all the guys just happen to have super powered muscle armor, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s true.
Once again, there are a growing body of games out there that buck this trend, but we can’t have a meaningful conversation about this topic if we don’t acknowledge that it’s a real phenomenon.
If I’m reading this thread correctly, when you say something overwhelmingly documented, I’m supposed to dismiss it with “That’s laughably weak!”, correct?
Interesting that you pointed out Starcraft II. I was just playing that game and I don’t remember seeing any eye candy. In fact, it seems like a fairly gender neutral game to me which goes to show that good gameplay trumps spandex over large breasts any day. Given the size of the game market, I seriously doubt there’s any nefarious plan to cater to horny young men or to ignore women gamers. The board room at EA is only turned on by big fat green numbers.
This doesn’t mean that marketing that used to work well isn’t still being used. It just takes time to adjust.
Wow, So someone who infringed on a game company’s copyrighted character without their notice or consent (yes, the fan art may be her creation, but since it relies upon the copyrighted game character it is considered a derivative work, which can only be made with the consent of the original copyright holder) is aggrieved when someone rips off her rip off? At least the Sarkeesian appropriation has a strong argument for being fair use, which the “fan art” creator does not (especially since she talks about licensing her images, even though she doesn’t own the underlying copyright).
Throw in a whole mess of misunderstanding about fair use doctrine (the four factors described in the Copyright Office publication are just that–factors to be taken into considration–and most definitely not some sort of mandatory checklist), and the entire issue is little more than a diversionary canard.
Let’s be careful not to turn this into a hatefest on Tammy/CowKitty, who is keeping things relatively low-key at least, even if I don’t agree with her. People like Chellberty want the whole issue to be a good vs. evil dogpile, which is all the reason I need to want the opposite.
