Well, vegans are such a cheap, easy target, who can resist? /s
What’s unclear? I’m talking about my anecdotal experiences with a subset of what we might call “fundie” vegans who poke their noses into the eating habits of individuals they know. Fortunately, most non-fundie vegans (like non-fundie Muslims) simply don’t ask about another person’s eating habits or demand everyone else adapt to them and stick to focusing on their own eating habits, which I also don’t poke my nose into or criticise; if you’re a vegan like that, my comment wasn’t referring to a vegan like you.
A person wants to fast, I don’t care. A person wants to be vegan, go for it. A person wants to eat cows, that’s their choice. Halal? Kosher? Why not? There are plenty of places where people can dine together that offer choices to include everyone’s dietary restrictions (including finding a time and place to include those who are fasting). The consequences, good or bad, physical or ethical or moral, are theirs to bear. [I will not be derailing this into yet another tiresome battle between herbivores and carnivores]
Certain vegans, as noted above. If you’ve never once met a vegan who subjected you to a pre-meal lecture and demanded that everyone adapt their dining plans to their needs as a rule, you’re fortunate.
You’re obviously not attuned to it, but I have met countless meat-eaters more than happy to taunt vegans for their dietary choices, wave their food in vegans’ faces, and argue about food. So there are obnoxious people everywhere. And while it’s true that the “militant vegan” stereotype exists, here you are, in effect answering the question “How can we be respectful to our Muslim friends during Ramadan?” by insulting vegans.
Oh, I’ve met fundie meat-eaters who taunted vegans and vegetarians, too. They’re also arseholes (bigger ones, in fact), but since they’re a majority who enjoy the privilege of not having to think about such things they have to be particularly obnoxious to make an issue of it, so they’re few and far between.
Also, I’m not sure how you read “certain vegans I’ve met over the years” as “all vegans.” I’m insulting some fundie vegans, just I’d similarly insult some fundie meat-eaters or some fundie Muslims or some fundie Xtianists who demand that the world adapt their dining habits to them instead of seeing respect as a two-way street.
I didn’t interpret “some vegans” as “all vegans.” (But I see that you interpreted my “insulting vegans” as “insulting all vegans.”)
The point is: Why did you mention any vegans? You could just as easily have said, “certain ‘fundie’ meat-eaters could take a lesson in manners.” But that would have likely seemed shrill to you and out of place, seeing as this is a post about Muslims and Ramadan.
I have met a few of these people.
I’ve met a lot more of these. They tend to lean more right politically, so for some I think it’s about the culture war against perceived liberal causes.
One such right leaning person I know once stated, “I can’t stand vegetarians, they are so annoying”. To which I pointed out, “I dunno. Most vegetarians I know don’t make a big deal out of it. And most of them are Indians.”
“Oh, well THOSE vegetarians don’t count. It’s the ones who bitch and complain about eating meat.”
I can almost guarantee this guy knows maybe 1 person like that (our circle of friends has a lot of overlap), and is more railing against some sort of liberal stereotype.
First, because this post is about a dietary restriction. If it was about a non-dietary religious ritual instead, the obnoxious fundie vegans I’ve encountered wouldn’t have been as relevant.
Second, because fundie arseholes are fundie arseholes, whether you’re talking about militant Muslims or Xtianists or vegans or paleo guys or carnivores, etc. I didn’t just say “certain meat-eaters” because, in my anecdotal experience, I haven’t run into as many of them as I have obnoxious vegans.
Agreed. Perhaps it’s a question of where one lives and one’s circles. I’m the whole “coastal urban liberal educated elite” stereotype, so it’s rare that I’ve encountered a militant pro-meat guy (maybe one or two times, tops). But as that stereotype, I’ve also met a lot more than one fundie vegan (from undergrad and grad alone I can recall several off the top of my head – some of them I still know kept the veganism but dropped the fundamentalism).
Well, sorry to be the PITA vegan here (but YOU started the discussion, remember): no, the consequences of eating meat are not “theirs” to bear - the burden is put on the animals, and the animals alone!
Oh, the people who fast Ramadan don’t have to think about this, too. They do, but nobody’s forcing them.
I like vegans, they’re nice to meat.
And “some vegans”…
Both sound a lot to me like, “I know not ALL black men are thieves, but…” or, “I know not ALL women get ridiculously irrational during their time of the month, but…” or, “I know not ALL Muslims are terrorists, but…”
I’ve known a few vegans and raw foodies who’ve been a bit self-righteous about their lifestyle.
But I’ve known an overwhelming number of omnivores who love to taunt and tease any and all vegetarians, mocking and ridiculing them in every single forum and post about vegetables or veggie food (i.e., the recent veggie burger thread). In my 15 years as a vegetarian and 2-3 years as a vegan, I doubt I got through a single meal without someone making fun of my food. It gets a bit old after a decade and a half.
You won’t see any “buts” from me. I made no claim that anecdote = data, and made it clear I was talking about obnoxious fundies that I’ve personally met over the years. These ones happened to be vegans (the vegetarians I’ve known tended to be more laid back about such things).
I’m done here. I appreciate your suggestion to split it off.
I’ve met them too, and I think the main problem is that they’re assholes. It’s their personality, not their dietary or lifestyle choices. If they weren’t vegans, they would simply find something else to be an asshole about.
Most vegans and vegetarians I’ve met are just normal people who wish to be left alone about their dietary choices.
That’s an interesting way of looking at it. I haven’t met anyone I’d consider a fundie meat-eater, but there are a lot of people who are “hurr durr look at these dumb veggies they can’t have meat and potatoes like real people”. I hesitate to call them fundies because they lack a position. They just react oppositionally to a dietary choice that they don’t understand. They may be meat eaters, but their argument has no meat.
Pretty much this. IME it’s been a couple of people who are smug and self-righteous because that’s who they are, vs a whole lot of reactionaries who fear differences.
Is there any way to read the OP other than as picking a fight & sowing strife?
subtweeting anonymous vegans is going to put pretty much all the vegans here on the defensive. Plus the whole “why can’t you be more like your brother - he’s so nice” - has anyone ever heard that and said “hey, you’ve got a good point”?
If a specific vegan is pissing in your cornflakes, why not have that argument with that person
I haven’t eaten land animal in 34 years. For somewhat obvious reasons, I try to avoid discussing my diet. The bullshit never ends. I DGAF what other people eat or not, nor do I have any political motivations behind what I eat, but some sorts of people have a real issue with keeping things to themselves and/or seem very entitled to interfere (or try to anyway) with the way other people live their lives.
I’ve had a lot of vegans & vegetarians as friends, and one odd thing I’ve noticed is that while vegetarians (and, uh, ‘flexitarians’) are all over the map with their attitudes towards food, every vegan I’ve known has been a fantastic cook. I think when you have to be so mindful of every element of your food (especially 10-15 yrs ago, when finding vegan stuff was much harder), it forces you to not be sloppy and to take a lot of care when cooking. Vegan baked goods are nearly always very worthwhile.
Makes sense, though it could be a chicken and egg thing too. Being already extra-mindful of food and all that out involves can lead to veganism. And to great kitchen skills!
Yeah, I run into that problem all the time, and I’m not even vegetarian. For example, the last time I was looking for marmite nobody there knew what the fuck I was talking about, let alone where (or if) they stocked it. The same is true for certain types of cheese, vegetables, and (in the Midwest) meat. Eventually I had to learn to be a little more adaptive.
And yes, vegan baked goods are amazing!