STUCK: Public transit's moment arrives just as public spending disappears

Uber, and ride sharing services, local car rentals, bikes etc… I see those as the beginning of another wave of public transportation.

Maybe the best one yet!

San Francisco had the best public transportation system in the world, and it was mostly privately owned.

I’d love that! Right now we have cab companies… But they’re inefficient and dug in, with huge payoffs to city governments for the priviledge to yadda yadda… Whatever. Just insert some justifications here and one is as good as any other.

Lucky for us all someone figured out that unenforceable laws are unenforcable… And no one gives a fuck what the law says anymore. So Uber just continues to operate until someone MAKES them stop. That’s expensive and time consuming. They just have to persist. They will eventually win.

Some distributed intelligent system of automobiles that actually live up to the name? Whether humans drive or Skynet does it… I think ultimately public transport will be small, independently operated vehicles, who calculate logistics and demand in real time.

Will be cool.

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I harrumph!

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At that speed, you can see the horizon appreciably moving. It’s damn impressive.

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the problem is that they are getting enough money but not using it where they need it. in vancouver we’ve been having this problem for years: fare hikes, carbon, and other taxes. we are putting enough money in but the government is as much of a corporation as the contractors that are getting the deals to build and maintain transit.
everything is ending up in someone’s pocket, unfortunately. salaries.
that we believe we can give any one person or small group of people that kind of money with no accountability and expect the right things to happen, is nice, but it isn’t going to happen.

See also, Baltimore. See also, The Lost Highway in Baltimore. See also, The Red Line/Purple Line shutdown/shitshow. See also, Penn Station as a whole. See also, the clusterfuck that is Union Station on a busy day. And finally, see also DC’s Metro system.

The inner city folks need to get around, but the county/rural surrounding areas don’t want that sweet sweet state money going to build transit in that dirty ass city, they want it to continue sinking cash into roads, always more roads.

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I love cars for all the great things they do and the personal freedom they offer, and I’ve taken many cars and m/c’s for long trips and had a blast, etc. etc…

But I agree completely with your sentiment–they are a time suck since there’s no easy way to multitask without killing yourself or someone else, and if one drives mostly in the city, they’re infuriating.

My favorite train ride so far was the last one I took through the Alps because the scenery…oh my. The second best train ride was the high-speed train from Paris to Amsterdam. Clean, comfortable, and stupid-fast. And I kept wondering–why the hell don’t we have this in America in any sizeable quantity.

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Quote:
“public transit – which can only ever be sustainable through
public spending, thanks to its massive capital costs and huge
externalities”

The same applies even more so to private transit. In fact private transit probably cannot exist. The state will always have to provide the road, police the road, maintain the road, coerce people into giving up land for the road. Sound a lot like public transit to me.

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You’ve got to try being a Nothinghead. Those Ethical Suicide hostesses are HOT!

even when, as is the case of NYC, a lot of that sweet, sweet state-controlled money actually comes from the city. The Upstate/Downstate clash is so crazy around here that even the two early childhood licensing organizations (NYC vs. NYS) can’t agree on anything, and become obsessed over labels and terminology. e.g. if you are earning your teaching qualifications while teaching, you are on a “Plan of Study” upstate, and in the city you are on a “Study Plan” and heaven help you if you use the wrong permutation with the wrong office.

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And it’s smooth. I was on my way from Zaragoza to Barcelona one day on the Alte Velocidad and the indicator was showing just under 200km/hr when breakfast arrived (company allows first class rail travel), next time I looked it said 301km/hr. I hadn’t noticed any change at all.

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"San Francisco had the best public transportation system in the world, and it was mostly privately owned. "

Not really privately owned more a parasite on the roads. How much investment do private transportation companies make in the infrastructure that they need in order to function?

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My facts were a little off. I think LA had the amazing public transport system running on streetcars. And… I’m talking about 100+ years ago.

It was privately owned. Taxes and fees paid for the rails.

They all went out of business… but… for a while, there was a great carbon neutral people moving system functioning in multiple US cities run by private interests and paying for the infrastructure they used.

Then came cars.

And maybe they’ll become electric cars, and drive us around too. And I hope someone will fine tune a clever way to share these resources and soon my mini-limo will pull up right on time to take me where I wanna go.

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Tons. Taxes and regulations paid for them. Taxes and reguluations drove the “electric traction” companies out of business. Especially when disruptive technologies appeared.

I get your point though. But the government doesn’t do anything specifically. They write checks with tax dollars. The people they buy goods and services from with those checks are the only ones actually doing anything.

The US highway system is an example of good use of public funds. The original outlay for our highways was public money, and taxes from gasoline paid and still pays for their maintenance. .

My thoughts precisely. Reprinted in The Science Fiction Hall of Fame, that one.

Is that actually where the illustration is from?

I think so. I remember the story made mention of single-occupant, self-balancing motorized unicycle vehicles for navigating the long narrow maintenance corridors beneath the roadworks. I can’t blame the magazine’s art director for thinking that would make a more interesting subject for the cover art than the roads themselves, which were basically just parallel strips of progressively faster-moving conveyer belts.

The unicycle thing in this picture looks kind of like a cross between a Vespa and a Segway.

Sorry. I didn’t realize that not everyone understands what is meant by incremental cost.

Unless the transit system in my county is so good that I could sell my car (renting a car or taking a cab for every trip the transit system does not cover), well then, I have to have a car.

And debt service (loan or lease), liability insurance, licensing, are there whether I commute or not. Therefore they are “fixed costs” that I pay whether I drive or take the bus to work.

It did come out a little over $2 when I remembered that part of my insurance is incremental. My car is a 2011 Nissan Altima.

Gas - 15 miles at 26 mpg and $3.00/gal (gas could be anywhere between $1.50 and $4.00 in the next few years) = $1.73 per 15 mile trip

Tires - $450 a set mounted, good for 40,000 miles = $0.17 per trip

Oil change (I do my own) $35 every 5,000 miles = $0.10 per trip

Insurance - my insurer gives my wife a $90 break since she drives less than 7500 miles per year. Assuming I would get the same, forgoing that break costs me $0.18 per trip.

I did not solve for depreciation. It’s a non zero cost but since I drive less than 14000 miles per year including the commute and the car is 5 years old, I don’t think this will break the bank.

Total incremental cost - $2.18 per one-way leg of the commute. (With what I am currently paying for gas it’s more like $1.45)

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I live in a metro area well over 1.5 million. But I don’t work right in the center city, and I park for free.

All of what you say makes sense, as long as it also makes sense for umpty-zillion people to have to come to work every day in such a small area. Someday there will be things like “phones” and “teleconferencing” to render that unnecessary…

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Thanks for the clarification. I wasn’t sure all that stuff was included. Me, I just take the price of the gasoline per km, and double it. It’s pretty close.

If you could take public transit, and/or live in the right place, you might be able to just rent a car for the odd time you do need one. (What’s needed is an insurance plan that covers your rental-car deductible only.) You’d probably be ahead, financially.

LA’s “Red Car” interurban system was built one line at a time by property developers who used fast interurban rail to make cheap property distant from the city center attractive to residential buyers.

Once the land was sold, developers sold the train lines to anyone fool enough to buy them, because they were inevitably a money-losing proposition - fares were regulated, but costs were not. Bad recipe for a profitable business.

By 1912, most of the lines had been bought by Henry Huntington, who merged them into a single system, standard-gauged all the track to make it heavy-rail compatible, and then sold the entire (money-losing!) system to the Southern Pacific, trading his shares in the interurban “Red Cars” for SP’s share of the local narrow-gauge streetcar system (the LARy “Yellow Cars”)

SP kept the system in business long past its “Sell By” date because, in addition to serving as (money-losing) mass transit during the day, it also provided SP with a (money-making) “last-mile” (more like “last 10 miles”, actually) freight delivery system, since electric locomotives could haul standard freight cars on the system’s standard-gauge rail.

Pacific Electric did a massive amount of freight traffic during the overnight hours in the early days, but that dropped off as roadways and delivery trucks improved.

After a brief revenue boost during the war making for a couple of rare profitable years, it eventually became entirely unprofitable, and SP closed most of it and sold its remnants to LA’s earliest public transit agency, which promptly closed the remainder.

Contrary to popular belief, mass transit in LA today is far, far superior to the heyday of the Red Cars. More of it runs on rubber tires, and less on rail, but today’s system provides more lines serving more areas during more hours more frequently and with better connectivity than the Red and Yellow Cars ever did.

The PE gets it reputation from its enormous amount of rail miles per capita, since it was built out ahead of demand - it was built to create demand, in fact.

It was what created LA’s famous sprawl - “A city that grows outward, not upward.”

But its riders didn’t love it any more than today’s riders love today’s LACMTA. Their complaints were much the same - it didn’t go enough places, it was too slow, it ran too infrequently, had limited night and weekend service, and was heavily overcrowded during peak hours.

The modern-day LA faux-nostalgia that claims the Red Cars were wonderful while simultaneously bad-mouthing today’s system is built of historical ignorance, wishful thinking, and white peoples’ aversion to buses as “only suitable for the poor.”

LA’s mass transit today is better than it’s ever been, and still improving rapidly. Don’t let uninformed stereotypes convince you otherwise.

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