Student loan garnisheeing topped $176M in three months

boing
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I went to a four year university, and after a year figured out that my love of music would get me nowhere. So I dropped out.

I’ve spent the last (fuuuck) 20 years of my life scrabbling up the ladder, by hook or crook. Similar it seems to you. The Take no Prisoner, I will figure this out by whatever means necessary approach.

You and I have succeeded at that, but I guess where I get a little concerned (especially with debt discharge) is the idea that we should all be scrappy and exceptional. It feels like a Lake Woebegone sketch.

Yeah, you and I eat hot dogs (and my dinner is wheat thins tonight, with some home made hummus). And dag nabit, sometimes we have to directly or indirectly support people that make bad decisions (like my wife with The Art Institute).

Keep empathy for the people involved.

P.s
Check out the cooking thread. There are lots of cheap vittles that are tastier than hot dogs, and cheap :smiley:

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[quote=“japhroaig, post:61, topic:75385”]
tastier than hot dogs[/quote]

[citation-needed]

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We have tried (I just picked a not-quite-random-year where I knew the income tax for the rich was … higher). It made rich people sad or something. I’m a bit unclear on the details other than it happened before I could vote.

If you do things by the math right now, unless your parents are rich there’s no way to come out even. You can either struggle forever in low paying jobs hoping one day you save up enough money to pay for college or you can accrue massive amounts of debt to not-qualify for the jobs you were told would pay for the degree.

And if you manage to win that lottery, it turns out they were lying about the pay. But they swear the wages are competitive and “everyone has to work entry level to get the experience.”

If you believe those radio ads about making bank by moving into an IT career by going to a glorified trade school focusing on certifications, I have more unfortunate news for you. :frowning:

I hate to drag logical fallacies and associated language into this but this smacks of confirmation bias. Google is pretty helpful with confirmation bias. It’ll target your search results to coincide with your preconceptions if you let it.

It’s somewhat offtopic but allow me to say that the idea that students should only study what looks like it will profit them over the long term is galling. Art, photography, journalism, music, writing, theatre, making movies, studying anthropology, and sciences with no end products in mind.

I don’t want to live in a humanity where humans lose this because no one could afford to study them.

Living that way is a death to whatever the reader would substitute for “soul.” If there isn’t more to life than work, what’s the point of life or work?

Should all humanity put art on hold until we destroy the price gouging, punitive loans, and a system where the only way to win is to start on Boardwalk?

Back on topic, if all the options are bad, why would you choose to single out the people who choose to make this “bad” choice?

Are you very careful to avoid giving kids who don’t go to college a hard time because they’re not living up to their potential? You can’t reasonably both give them a hard time and give the ones who went to college a hard time (although one complaint always seems to go with the other).

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Oh you!

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Ah, so either you went to uni in the 80’s, or you’re full of shite.

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Cooper Union, where that image is from, is a well-regarded private school that offered free tuition to all accepted students until 2014. (Which makes me doubt it’s for-profit.) Predictably, the school’s revision of that policy, brought about by mismanagement of its endowment, drew protests. College students being college students, careful accuracy in sloganeering was not a priority.

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Agreed on this last part… though it’s won’t be that no one can do it, but that only a few people can do them, and that will be the rich and privileged, meaning these things will reflect their own values, which might not be ours.

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I don’t really have a lot to say about this that will come off as being well-organized or diplomatic.

It’s good when people can go to school, qualify for grants and scholarships, work hard, take jobs during their classes, and get through their college years with a degree and a promising future. I feel like working during college is good for you, especially if you’ve never had retail experience. Everyone should work retail at least once in their lives.

I did those things- I went to a public college, I received grants, scholarships, and managed to not take out a single loan during my first couple of years. I also did federal work-study, and in addition, worked at a mall in the evenings to make ends meet. When I took out my first loan I did not stop working. It was literally so that we could continue to stay in the area, so the increments were very small, and after I graduated, the total loan debt was 12k.

It’s not a lot at all. I have a friend who took out 30k for a single semester of school, just because he was getting ulcers from worrying about money. I have no idea how he’s doing financially now.

As for myself, I expect to be garnished in the next couple months. I paid around 3k of my debt back in the past seven years, but because of repeated late fees and defaults and refinancing, I’m back up to the same amount. I am Sisyphus.

I could not have the job that I have without a degree. I would simply not be hired. I have a child and rent a place, and my parents could not help me without financially crippling themselves.

When my wages are garnished, I actually expect that I’ll feel relieved. Because at least the money won’t hit my bank account before it’s gone, and maybe I won’t feel it quite as sharply that way. I can feed my kid and pay my rent. We can always go outdoors for fun. Mostly, that’s free.

I wish that the money was going to a place where it would do something, instead of lining pockets that are already rich with funds. I wish that I could see that this futility was leading to something more. I wish that my degree offered the opportunities that I thought it would, without having to return to school, enter further into debt, and obtain a master’s degree.

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Fine by me. If you’re ever on fire, don’t expect help from me.

Completely serious.

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I agree. Not all profit is monetary. And not all of it accrues to the individual. I’m glad we have scholarships that encourage people in these areas. And financial aid. And maybe a few other things.

Unfortunately, we can’t give full ride scholarships to everyone for every profession. Well, we could. But we’d set people up for failure that way. As you noted, the pay isn’t always great in some professions. Often because even with lousy pay, there are more people than job openings for those careers. Encouraging oversupply doesn’t help anyone. Except employers, maybe.

Another system is faced by my Chinese collegues: They had to compete for limited slots for a major. It might be logical, but it makes me uneasy. The results are not that great. And it may seem to argue against what people think I am saying. But I’ve been arguing for free will and choice.

People should look at their lives, decide what they think is best for their future, and do it. If going to college is the answer for them (regardless of major), then ok. If borrowing money is how they want to do it, no problem. They should do it with eyes wide open, but it is their choice. If it is financial suicide, but they want to do it, ok. They are likely making a fulfilling life choice that has benefits beyond money.

I have sympathy and respect for people with debt but did it willingly and don’t complain. I do not have sympathy for people who didn’t bother to think ahead and then complain about the results. If money was what was most important to them, then art, music, journalism might not have been the career for them. They should have done some research if financial well being was so important.

You are right, Google can be misleading. But searching for “what careers pay well” and “how much do schools cost” tend to be pretty neutral. It does still take sifting. I also searched for “does college pay off” and similar phrases. A mixed bag worth reading. Some I found surprising and challenged my beliefs.

As for the radio ads, I listen to NPR. But I know what you mean. Those schools are scams in my opinion. I don’t even consider them related to debt getting a degree. That’s debt from getting scammed.

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That interesting. Yes, I see living a materialistic life as a moral problem. I gave my story as an example that high debt is not the only story. You seem to reject that possibility. I see your rabid rejection of living within ones means as imprudent.

As for being special, not in the slightest. It’s inconceivable I’m the only person who ever cut corners to save money. Especially since some of my classmates did the same. And not just this generation. I grew up hearing stories of my relatives lives during the Great Depression. Scary stuff to a kid. But inspiring. Comparatively speaking, I was a sybarite. And not just this country. Compared to my colleagues in China, I was a spoiled brat. I had indoor plumbing, spent money on meat, etc. Shoes! I had shoes!

People survive tough times. To try to shame any story, mine, my relatives, my friends, of people getting by is shameful and immoral. It kills hope. Except for the hope someone will swoop in and save you. Knock it off.

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You are not alone, and you are awesome for sharing your story. The student debt issue is one of the most important to resolve.

We have policies that punish working people for working while large banks are subsidized. They skim the economic cream and brag about “efficiency” while hurting real people who work paying rent and caring for dependents.

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We could make a college education at any public institution tuition-free though. We know this is feasible because it’s been successfully implemented before, in the U.S. and elsewhere.

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Sorry, I should have been a bit more clear. I meant scholarships in the absence of some sort of restrictions. I often hear people talk of one, but not the other.

Yes. I think it’s possible to do things tuition free. Freshman year in many states now. But, and I’m being serious here, how do they avoid creating a glut in fields that are attractive, but with limited jobs? That’s the set up for failure I meant. Or how about not encouraging colleges to double prices because it’s completely paid for. There must be those controls. I just haven’t been able to stumble on them yet. Could you point me in the right direction?

My understanding is that tuition for in-state college is less than half of expenses (see link). It would certainly help to reduce tuition costs. But limited. People need to be careful with room and board expenses … whether they go to college or not.

http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/average-estimated-undergraduate-budgets-2015-16

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Most people factor potential income into their decision making when choosing a career. Jobs with a glut of qualified applicants tend to pay less. No need to put artificial restrictions on which majors get free tuition and which ones don’t.

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Don’t worry about other people’s personal choices.

It’s not your place to judge, and you don’t have all the facts anyway despite the dubious claim that you sacrificed so much more than other graduates.

We should choose policies that are fairest to the least advantaged among us. That is, an educational policy that results in equitable service by educated professionals for all of our communities.

Encouraging detailed public reports by those with student debt service helps achieve that policy.

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So why did I get my head bitten off when I suggested people do the same when they are paying for it? It would seem even more crucial. Thoroughly confusing.

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To try to shame any story,

Ah. So not just dumb mean horsheshit, but voluminous driving trollies horseshit. How much time did you waste with that? You do know that time is means, right? As in be smarter about living within it. Time is more an unforgiving means than money.

DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND? Whoa.

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I tend to agree with you. I don’t worry about what people choose. We should choose fair policies. And I don’t judge. At least until someone starts saying they deserve a mulligan. That begs for some sort of analysis. My biased opinion (and I laid out my reason for bias) is no. Why people find it so unbelievable that I rode a bike, didn’t go on spring break, ate hot dogs, held down a job, etc is mystifying. Are these impossible things? Disagreement with my opinion and assessment, sure. But that I scrimped seems to blow peoples minds. Is it really that threatening a concept? Is the only way to dispute my opinion is dispute the reason for my bias? To claim my experiences didn’t happen so my opinion is invalid?

That might not be what you are saying. So please forgive me. But sheesh!

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Not really. Please try again. But try to use more bile and hatred. You have such potential.