I dunno, I bet if you polled Evangelicals to ask how many would support a thrice-married serial philanderer who never went to church and was the living embodiment of all Seven Deadly Sins you’d see a pretty big shift in responses between 2015 and 2016.
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Depends if he hates the people they hate…
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Good article. That’s some bullshit they point out on the part of the NYT. Hasn’t the media learned that this “we must present all sides” doctrine only elevates fringe theories? Climate change deniers, anti-vaxxers, and so many other cranks have been given a platform by this notion of “equal time.”
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The Evangelicals who are doing deals with the same TERFs who they claimed were destroying family values in the 1980s and 90s?
It’s like a real world Injustice League.
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Well the issue with these GLAAD numbers, as with past surveys (pitching it as a “study” is a bit of an issue since its clearly a poll). Is that its at odds with nearly every other independent poll of the subject.
As of may 2019 the Gallup Daily Tracking Poll shows the uptrends in acceptance on pace. Even as there are tiny 2 point down ticks vs last year. Within the margins and smaller than other year to year drops that didn’t signify a change in the trend.
Pew doesn’t seem to have a version of their big religion and society survey based on numbers newer than 2014 online. But associated questions like wise show the uptrend continuing. And not many of these orgs seems to be polling heavily on gender identity concerns. But no one else seems to have been able to find these drops in acceptance than GLAAD has been pointing at for a few years.
I dunno that you can draw too much of a conclusion from a single poll associated with a single political group’s fund raising efforts. Especially given the context of demographic polling showing the same age groups shifting left on everything from party affiliation to religiosity, again consistent with long term trends.
Most of the other stuff you’re pointing to is real. It just doesn’t need to roll out of an unprecedented year to year shift in a single age group’s beliefs (stated or real). All of that can happen in the case of a suddenly empowered and encouraged fringe.
And in particular those complaints about media and political strategy predate Obergefell. And have mostly focused on the big orgs like the Human Rights Campaign and GLAAD themselves. If washy, compromising activism held up gay marriage (which I believe it did), how can it be a new thing resulting from success on that front?
The alt right certainly skews young, even as its loaded with wipper snappers like Manafort. But Trump’s base isn’t a new thing. That’s a decades long rising trend on the right. One that’s been deliberately courted by the GOP and Right Wing political apparatus and press. But support for Trump, the GOP, and right wing policy ideas is still starkly lower in the same age brackets.
A sudden willingness to admit these beliefs. Sounds good. But it just reminds me of the secret Trump voters the media fixed on after the election. It was obvious that it was something that happened to some extent. But noone could peg it in any way, and it was mostly an attempt to explain a polling inacuracy that didn’t really exist. And since its become more accepted (in theory) to support Trump, his support seems to have gone down. So how much of an impact can it have had?
The support numbers for males crashed from '16 to '17 while the numbers for females stayed almost exactly the same. Then the female number crashed the next year, from 64% to 52%. Very odd.
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Well, I have a controversial insider’s theory about waning support for LGBTQ causes. Take it or leave it and don’t bother scolding me about wrongthink:
The nation’s people are still fine with LGB people. LGB have spent more than 50 years demonstrating that they’re different but still normal. That they’re not “confused about their gender”. But, if one must answer about how they feel of the LGBTQ movement/community as a whole now, that is a different answer. Since LGB Liberation is wed to TQ inclusion, it is hard to answer the question of your comfort with “them” because separating TQ people reads as homophobic.
LGB is a group apart from TQ folk. They stand together with TQ folk, not necessarilly because they have common ideals and goals, but because they face a common foe, homophobic bigots who see them all as one and the same, and persecute them for failing to live up to hetero-normative standards. LGBTQ people have all been tormented for being different, and are fighting for equality and to be treated with respect. LGBTQ people have all suffered marginalization of their gender identities.
But, they’re socially and culturally nonconforming for different reasons.
TQ people are mostly straight. They don’t genuinely identify with LGB people because …they’re not just queens or butch dykes. They’re not attracted to the “opposite sex”. They’re straight people in bodies with inconvenient anatomy. They feel that “CIS” LGB people are traitors to the cause, what with their old-timey theories about what causes same-sex attraction. Curiously, they consider gender to be “just a social construction”, while well-known and stereotypical gender identities (AKA traditional sex roles) are considered consolidated packages. Since “CIS” LGB people still refuse to behave properly according to their gender, there is even homophobic hatred for them among TQ folk.
In the course of their public ascension in recent years, TQ people have essentially assumed the reins of the LGBTQ movement. The new TQ leaders of the LGBTQ movement are erasing history’s LGB people, particularly drag queens and cross-dressing kinksters, claiming that they were really transgender or nonbinary people. They feel that “CIS” LGB people have conducted an oppressive conspiracy to keep Transgender people from the recognition they deserve.
So, the country’s LGBTQ allies are feeling an accumulative change in the direction the “LGBTQ” movement is going. The movement has taken on an authoritarian cult-like feeling. The movement’s leader’s actions do not match their words, and even their words are straining the limits of common sense. But the voices are those of “certified” LGBTQ leaders and influencers, so it colors impressions of the LGB people as well.
To the point about me being an insider; I have been immersed in LGBTQ culture since I was a support-group teen, and before Queer Nation bolted the Q on in 1990. I held office in college LGB groups, worked in gay bars, and have volunteered for LGBTQ orgs and causes ever since. I have had the terms “queer” and “CIS” firmly lobbed onto me by persons who ironically don’t respect my personal identity. It’s blatantly hypocritical from my perspective.
I am abundantly sex-positive, and a staunch ally to Transgender and Queer people whether or not I have drunk deeply of their kool-aid. I’m not asserting that all people are such as I have described, but these things are indeed dominate forces at play, whether it’s socially acceptable to see and speak of them. I don’t claim, nor seek to be socially acceptable. I’m just sick of being marginalized by a succession of hypocritical subcultures whose main complaint is MARGINALIZATION.
Not in my experience. There seems to be a higher chance of trans people admitting to being LGB than with cis people. I guess it is because if you are already an outsider then there you might as well accept the other things that would make you an outsider.
My online support group when I was transitioning was about 50% LGB, without them actively targeting LGB trans people.
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You make a good point and I think it’s valid. But consider, you don’t see all Transgender people go through support groups. You see the ones who feel they benefit from support groups and feel the group they’re in is one they can relate to. Straight Transgender people might drop by for a session and decide they don’t relate to Gays and Lesbians there, and find some other tribe to hang with. Meaning, respectfully, your group was self-selecting, and not absolutely a proper sample. Anyway, when you say the straights were 50%, I feel that’s comfortably close to my opinion. 
My youth support group was the one recommended by Mermaids. 20 years ago in Britain there was a choice of that one group, or don’t have any support.
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When you say insider does that mean that you’re someone who was involved in successfully passing non discrimination legislation?
Or that you’re a member of one of the subgroups? If so - which one?
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Yeah - studies show that the majority of trans people aren’t straight.
Jeez - that’s just basic information.
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My youth group was mostly queens and butch dykes and had no Transgender people that I know of. And I’ve got many of them on my facebook friends list. We had difficulty keeping, uh, “straight acting” people coming back, because our group’s optics made it seem that LGB people were mostly fruity. It was hostile to anyone who didn’t have a colorful personality.
Decades later in my current city, there is a very well funded and staffed LGBTQ youth organization. I looked into volunteering there and… they were fresh out of Gays and Lesbians. The youth that arrived to meet after the open house I was attending were mostly Transboys. A few Transgirls and just 3-4 who identified as plain old LGB. At other volunteering gigs, I met some teens who had aged out from the org, and they confirmed that “CIS” teens were treated on a lower social tier.
I don’t believe that the teens I met with, when I was a teen, were just confused about their gender all along. None of them have transitioned. And I do believe Transgender and Non-binary people exist, but there should be a lot more LGB people.
Yes, and yes. Tell me why it matters which LGBTQ letter I’m associated with?
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Who you represent doesn’t matter? Why?
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Yeah - studies show that the majority of trans people aren’t straight.
Jeez - that’s just basic information.
I eagerly await your citations.
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You first.
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Oh hell no. We’re not doing that.
You can choose to accept the comment, or not, based on the information given. If person A does not want to provide additional information, then that is their choice, and person B is free to weigh their comments based on how that choice affects their view of person A’s comment.
But we’re not going to start down a road of “papers please” before we accept what people say. You want to find references to refute what was said, go for it. Because in the end those references, and personal experience, are all we have - claims by an poster here can’t be verified, nor should they have to be.
Thanks.
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What’s interesting is that I remember many people who identified as gay or lesbian and wanted to transition but felt they couldn’t because they wouldn’t be accepted- especially by their gay friends.
Many did later in life.
Regarding societal acceptance- early studies in the 70’s and 80’s actually showed higher acceptance for transgender people.
In the early 2000’s polling (by HRC I believe) showed more support in my state for trans protections than for gay.
History is messy - and someone who came out when there were actually youth groups- you only know a slice of it.
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I’m open minded. Does anyone have links to studies about Transgender people and also being LGB?
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