Well I think “40’acres and a mule” is a good benchmark. The idea at the time was to give freed slaves (presumably the heads of families) the means for self-sufficiency. Not only is this (minimal) compensation for the labor stolen from them, it’s also wise fiscal policy so you don’t condemn a generation of people and their descendants to poverty and subjugation.
Ah, see an ounce prevention would have been worth a pound of cure…
Our democracy has limits, one of which is the inability to vote away the rights of others.
Except all the times we don’t do that. We have a history in the 20th century of undertaking large scale, massive projects. this is no different. the “it’s hard, it will hurt people’s feelings, it’s too difficult” etc, etc are really just bullshit excuse to maintain the status quo.
Have you asked them all?
Likely more than just these two would understand that their rights aren’t eroded when the wrongs of the past are made whole.
In other words, don’t make assumptions about entire groups of people, especially considering that some straddling various identities in various ways.
I really must encourage every one to read the Baldwin article I posted, the first one at least, which is only 5 pages. It very much addressed white identity.
Real talk.
One of the most nonsensical things I heard bigots claim over the years was that Obama had single-handedly made racism worse; when the reality is that his election and presidency highlighted how much that ugly malignancy has always been there for many people, simmering just right beneath the surface.
Often not even then, sadly; my own maternal grandma loved us kids dearly, and we loved her… but she was still prejudiced, especially against Black men.
Do you think that most white people saw him as half white? I doubt it. @Melz2 noted the one drop mindset.
Ah, the devil’s in the details though eh? Even a literal 40 acres and a mule to all the descendants of African slaves would be unrealistic. The problem is what is the modern equivalent.
And while I’m cynical enough to believe that the USA is not mature enough to be able to flesh out the details currently, I’m glad that the topic is being raised. It’s hard to solve a problem when everyone’s allowed to pretend that it doesn’t exist.
A lot of soldiers were young and not yet fathers, which means the ones who lost their lives in the war wouldn’t have any descendants.
Another way to look at it: if someone thinks a cause is so important that they’re willing to lay their life on the line to defend it, they probably wouldn’t think paying reparations to be as onerous as you fear.
Remember: they lay down their lives to end slavery. They’d be horrified to see how the Confederacy has somehow managed to wage a guerrilla war maintaining the prejudices and inequalities all these generations later.
Not to be too blunt, or disrespectful, but I’m guessing that if death hasn’t already solved that problem that it soon will.
I’ve got an uncle that always treated my sister and I like shit because we were the first mixed kids in the extended family. He definitely softened a bit when his only reproductive son gave him mixed grandkids (ironically, the exact same mix that my sister and I are). He’s still a bit of a bigoted dick, but he’s 80+ and the little bit of racism that he contributes will soon disappear. His kids are clearly not as racist, and it’s going to be a lot harder each successive mixed generation to hate people for being “other”.
IMHO it’s pretty rare to have someone change their mindset, especially later in life, but I do have some hope for generational improvement.
Ah hell no. Just as white people don’t see me as half white (I’m the “asian guy”…). That was kind of my point is that people could have, but didn’t. I probably could explain things better sometimes…
She passed away long ago, when I was 19.
I loved her and I always will, but I don’t deny her flaws.
And I can’t say her passing “solved” the problem, either; she raised three children; my two uncles, who are also bigots-in-denial, and my mother, who is not one.
This is pretty much what I’ve seen in my family as well. But what I’ve also seen is that now, almost every grandkid level relationship is a mixed one (barring one cousin). My experience is that while the older generations may harbor their racist BS, that it seems to diminish with each generation.
As long as the trend is “bigot -> bigots in denial -> then not bigots” there’s some hope at least, even if it takes generations to get where we should be. You’re forced to play the short game, but that can’t keep you from thinking about the long game…
Oh, there’s always hope.
But I have to tell you, that bigots-in-denial are often as bad if not worse than self-aware bigots who actually own their hatred.
Yeah, they’re the toxic turds in the punchbowl who’d love to claim that the punch is delicious and non-contaminated. As long as it’s a transient state that’s eventually replaced with a completely fecal free punchbowl…
But yeah, this isn’t some “wait it out, they’ll die out on their own” argument for complacency either. This kind of crap only clears up when someone actively addresses the issue.
In my family, when one member dies in debt the rest of the family does it’s best to pay off those debts. It’s a matter of family honor and keeping a clean reputation for the living.
That’s what we’ve got here - a bunch of dead ancestors who left us some serious debt, which we have not only not paid off, but which we have added to.
So - cash payments? Probably not. That in itself would not fix our institutions or our cultural dysfunctions, and would logistically never be fair. If you got a cash settlement and the government said “well, that’s done”, but you still couldn’t get hired for a job that’s equal to your abilities and educational background, or get equal pay with your peers, that’s not repairing the damage you live with, and reparation is about repair. Equally if you got a cash settlement but still are poorly educated because you grew up in a terrible school system, that’s also not repairing the damage you live with. But cultural reorganization to recognize the thefts and oppressions of the past and present, and actions to lift up those who still suffer the consequences of that past and present? Yes.
That would include educational reform (including remedial adult ed for those who need and want it, and job and income protections to ensure they have the time to study), housing reform, justice system reform, employment and income reform and programs to substitute for the modest family resources many families have been institutionally denied. We’d concurrently need to take steps to ensure that the thefts and oppressions that are still going on stop and will never be repeated.
All of this couldn’t be restricted to African Americans, of course - other Americans have also been the targets of American racism and have been held back in similar ways over many generations, even though their ancestors were not enslaved. But eliminating the institutional racism that affects them, too, while working to repair the way African Americans experience life in the U.S. certainly does no damage to African Americans; it helps us move towards a country where everyone is treated equally and everyone has equal opportunities, things we pay lip service to but have not done much to achieve.
It’s a big debt, and very difficult to pay off, but this won’t make anyone’s life worse, it will make everyone’s lives better as it’s implemented. It may take several generations to complete, because the thefts and oppressions are still going on, and cultural change is very slow, but the sooner we start, the sooner it will be done.
I’ve seen it quantified. I want to say the figure was something like $1.3 trillion (not sure - need to fact check). But you’re right, what’s the equivalent now, not in terms of dollars but in terms of effect? Can we make up for the suffering of generations of people in poverty? I don’t even know. But we can try to put things on a better path now by helping build wealth. Corey Booker’s idea (which may have been mentioned already but I missed it) is effectively to give every kid a trust fund. That doesn’t help people now (which is why I like the UBI) but it does theoretically start setting things right in the future.
Georgetown did an interesting thing, giving descendants of slaves they sold free tuition (tho they still have to get in) and adding a surcharge to student tuition to create a reparations fund. But that doesn’t quite sit right with me; sure the students are the ones who benefit from the prominence of Georgetown (which exists because of the slaves they sold) but the institution itself isn’t really losing anything, just passing along the fees. That’s why on some level divesting land at the federal and state level makes some sense to me; I feel like it hurts the state more than the people in the state. And somehow that seems more fair.
For all of the centuries profit was made
Black skin was always branded slave
Even the child of the masters rape
Could be killed or sold because black blood in her veins
But the ancestors fought back, got free
Probably have not heard of Jean-Jacque Dessalines
Probably don’t know the Haitian revolution
Caused the French to sell half of America
Nor know the role that Africans played
In the Civil War for that same America
If you ain’t heard of Nanny of the Maroons or Bogle
You probably believe what they told you
But if they set Africans free
Because all of a sudden they grow a conscience
Tell me this,
Why were the slave masters given compensation,
And those that suffered not given a thing?
You were saying that we should address issues of racial and economic injustice in an argument against reparations, which addresses the greatest racial and economic injustice in the country’s history. I don’t view pointing out the contradiction as taking your quote out of context.
Of course there is other inequality, but in no issue that we really care about do we argue that we shouldn’t make improvements because it won’t fix everything. If we would like to address racial and economic inequality, there is no better place to start.
Are you talking about the cops in the past few years who’ve shot a bunch of black boys, cause they are very much alive. This is not the past, this is the present. TODAY.
And lest we forget:
It’s difficult to get exact stats on the numbers of people currently in US prisons, but as far as I can tell the number of enslaved Americans today is roughly equal to that immediately prior to the Civil War.
Slavery never ended; it just changed form.
