The fascinating Mincome experiment


#1

Really interesting idea and way of rethinking social economics…


When robots take routine middle-class jobs, those workers drop out of the workforce
Haircuts transform the homeless
#2

Fascinating, but sadly widely ignored. :frowning:

I would extend it further and suggest that a Basic Income would be fairer than a Guaranteed Minimum Income as everyone would get it.


#3

That makes more sense to me as well. I’d love to see more of these sorts of experiments conducted in the future, I think they have some real potential.


#4

Resurrecting this thread, because Holland is going to give Basic Income a try in Utrecht.

I really hope it’s successful …


#5

But if people get a living wage, where will The Man find folks to do all those shitty jobs with no intrinsic value to society, let alone all the ones that continue to feed the biosphere’s future to disgustingly obese fatcats?

Won’t somebody think of the billionaires?


#6

I am thinking of them. They are the source of the sweet, sweet tax dollars needed to fund it … :smiling_imp:


#7

You’d think it shouldn’t be such a hard sell, since it’d mean the minimum wage could be reduced to a pittance.

Oh, wait…


#8

But but but… Maybe the trillionaires will all leave for China or set themselves on fire or something!


#9

That’s the nice part - they get their $12,000 too! We actually have this in the US, in the Earned Income Tax Credit, but it’s woefully small and it’s means-tested. Because of that it’s a program for the poor, and because of that it’s constantly under attack. This is why means-testing Social Security and Medicare is a terrible idea.


#10

Don’t you have to work to get an Earned Income Credit, though? The point of Basic Income is that it goes to everyone at the same rate regardless of work status. Only income above that level is subject to income tax.


#11

Yes. It’s the same idea, after it gets hammered by Republicans for 50 years, just like Obamacare is what happens when you turn them loose on universal health care. Just wait til you see what’s in store for universal education!


#12

Not really the same thing, imho.

With the EITC only a few on rare occasion get more then they pay in, this essentially equates to a program to reduce the tax on the extremely poor with high expenses (lots of children/caring for disabled family, etc.) Most people on EITC still pay, they just pay less/get back more then someone not on EITC. This isn’t free money so much as reduced taxation.

Mincome is a guaranteed minimum livable wage for all citizens. That is really really really different than a tax break.

yes, it isn’t the same thing at all. Earned Income Tax Credit…the name says it all.


#13

@ChuckV thanks for fixing that spelling mistake… :slight_smile:


#14

Not so at all. For a person near the poverty line with a child - the typical EITC taxpayer - taxable income is zero, while the refundable credit can be several thousand. Full dis: I used to do taxes at an office in a poor area - I had hundreds of clients like this.

* or near zero. Oops.
**also not counting other taxes, just Federal.


#15

Fair enough I don’t really know firsthand, I was getting my info off of the EITC wiki page.

Regardless, several thousand isn’t a guaranteed livable wage, which is the main point of mincome.
Not everyone qualifies for EITC, many who do don’t qualify for the full amount unless they have expenses that exceed the amount being reimbursed (several children/disabled family member), several thousand doesn’t guarantee any sort of food or housing security, etc.

So I’m still inclined to say it isn’t really the same thing.


#16

You’re right on all counts, but I do think it was a step in the same direction, thanks to that liberal socialist Nixon.


#17

Another really cool mincome experiment!

#A Charity’s Radical Experiment: Giving 6,000 Kenyans A Guaranteed Basic Income For A Decade


#18

Another Article on Basic Income:


#19

Let them.


#20

Update from Finland:

Also side article about the idea of money: