I really am concerned about the whole Iraq War lead up, and how anyone could be okay with this. Its one thing for intelligence to be bad, itās another to literally torture the intelligence into some chump to make him say it, and then use that as justification for a trillion dollar war and hundreds of thousands of dead people. Bad intelligence is the US getting duped. This is the US being a horrible scourge on history.
Tack it on to our history of slavery, Native American policy, atomic bombs (we were the good guys then!), and the creation-by-policy of the modern jihadi movement. American exceptionalism is a true thing, but I donāt think it works in the way most folks think it does.
Although I am 100% with you, I fear the average American reaction to things that call for rioting in the streets usually falls somewhere in between one of the five:
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THIS IS OUTRAGE I WILL NOT STAND FOR oh, wait, this girl Iāve never actually met just said on Twitbook something about that guy I donāt remember his name from the Cosby Show
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Serves them sand-nigger Iraqis right for 9/11.
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Duuude, you are so serious, smoke a bowl and chillax.
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I would love to care but have no energy left after 60 plus hours of near forced labor for subsistence wages.
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Iāve been trying to tell you dimwits for years but you just donāt care so fuck it.
Itās a shameful choice we face. Be aware and rightfully disgusted by the exploitation and injustices of our history and culture and discover that most people donāt give a shit, or shrug your shoulders and rationalize so you can be happy and ignorant.
I like Matt Borsā recent commentary.
Iām afraid I fall pretty solidly into number five. I protested on a daily basis for most of the 8 years Bush was in office, fighting against the war, the environmental damage, the human rights abuses. Writing letters, spreading awareness, even giving money to causes I thought would help. A lot of other people did, too. The result: absolutely nothing was accomplished. And things have just gotten worse.
I now live in a country where police violence, overt racism and sexism, corporate rule, surveillance, torture, corruption, and willful, science-hating, proud ignorance are not only the norm, they are beloved national values that the average citizen will stand up and defend. At this point I do indeed say fuck it, Iām moving to a country where people arenāt completely batshit out-of-their-minds foaming-at-the-mouth-and-stabbing-themselves-in-the-face crazy. If I can ever afford to, anyway- Iām dangerously close to being number four on your list as well.
As has been pointed out elsewhere, the build-up to the war in Iraq was the most protested thing in the history of protesting things. But I think that conventional civil disobedience has become a ritual to be ignored by politicians and the media. It has become an ineffective steam valve whose only purpose is to reassure the protestors that they are not alone in their opinions.
I just wish that the media and the politicians would let the police in on this. Nothing to see here, officer, please move along.
ThatĀ“s exactly the feeling IĀ“ve had for the last decade or so. I think it has actually been true for far longer, and not only in the U.S. At some point politicians realized that itĀ“s so much easier to just not give a shit and that simply nothing will happen to them if they donĀ“t. Political culture in the U.S. and elswhere is absolutely pathetic at this point, a meaningless contest in lying, deception and sedition and the winners get to fill their and their cronieĀ“s pockets for the next few years.
So called political participation and protest culture has long become just another tool to pacify the masses.
The secret to keep this system going on indefinitely is to keep people just the right amount of dumb, entertained and their basic needs met to a degree just enough so the majority of them manage to tell themselves theyĀ“re not getting royally screwed. I think most of the worldĀ“s elites have that formula down pretty well by now.
I used to have a bit of fire in me, but these days I most certainly fall into categories 4 and 5
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Iād like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that the reason this is so is because we live in an oligarchy. No amount of protest is going to change anything.
Supporting the Iraq war was pretty bad news for Clinton in the 2008 primaries. It cost her the nomination, according to most analysis. So thereās that.
Every nation in all of history has actually been a democracy. Contemporary democracy - the vote once every four years kind - is not a system to empower people, but a system to allow people in power to exit power with their heads attached to their shoulders. If this keeps up, the day is coming when powerful people will be shown their power does not confer immortality. It wouldnāt exactly be the first time.
I donāt think itās a new idea, but it is deeply disillusioning to find the idealistically formed nation states of the age of revolution to have all been so thoroughly co-opted by this essential flaw in human nature.
Why should anything Cheney does/says be surprising? The torture is the cherry on top of the sundae that is the Iraq War. The Iraq War which cost X lives and $X trillion dollars-- for what? Not for 9/11. Not for āTerrorismā. ISIS is now happening because of the Iraq War, not in spite of it.
But no ones going to investigate why the Iraq War happened, even as the 23rd investigation into āBenghaziā is initiated. . . Even during Nixon, Republicans eventually did the right thing; now, Republicans no longer have independent critical reasoning skills, since theyāre all calved off the collective hive mind.
Yep this is why theyāve had āProtest Zonesā at political conventions since when, the 1990s?
Youāre free to express your dissenting opinion over there, behind that wall, where we can ignore youā¦
I'm afraid I fall pretty solidly into number five. I protested on a daily basis for most of the 8 years Bush was in office, fighting against the war, the environmental damage, the human rights abuses. Writing letters, spreading awareness, even giving money to causes I thought would help. A lot of other people did, too. The result: absolutely nothing was accomplished. And things have just gotten worse.
I want you to know that your past actions are truly appreciated here. Seriouslyā¦ thank you. You should look into the mirror and be very proud of your efforts. Youāve literally helped to save lives by your actions and I think itās a damn shame that you (and others here within this forum) donāt appear to be very aware of this fact.
The state of world (and our country) would be vastly worse off today if other progressive activists and yourself did little or nothing during that time period. Despite all the setbacks, literally every issue you mentioned and fought for has progressed in various meaningful ways since then. And, as Iāll explain later, this has been no small miracle considering the inherent, mountainous obstacles humanity faces against progressive advancement in general.
For the sake of brevity (or at least some frail attempt at it), Iāll mostly focus on one issue you mentioned even though thereās been large gains on other issues including environmental, human rights, etc. as well:
Fighting against war.
Letās face it, weād be in deadly, outright war right now (and/or cleaning up the horrific mess) in Iran if it wasnāt for the efforts of progressive activists past and present. Activists spread anti-war information, anti-corporatist facts and general dissent throughout this nation where the corporate media would not. Whether you realize it or not, that information really did get disseminated, it really did spread throughout the core of this nation and it has very obviously influenced not only the public at large, but the establishment as well.
You, of all people, should remember that there was a time when even simply questioning GW Bush and the Iraq War would very easily and very publicly brand one as treasonous. Remember the Dixie Chicks? Michael Moore at the Oscars? And, rememberā¦ there was a time when it was all but preordained that Iran was soon to be next in our military-industrial complex hit list.
Today, most of the public is informed enough to know that the Iraq War (and rushing into wars, in general) was a mistake. This public status keeps us at bay from attacking Iran and other much more zealous campaigns within the Middle East. You really think the corporate news who was literally owned by defense contractors would have widely disseminated any of this counter-war information and influence on their own?
Hell no.
If it wasnāt for progressive activists like you who forced them to cover Iraq war blunders, the corporate media would have glossed it over, buried it and moved on. The public at large today would think the Iraq War was overall justified if it wasnāt for the efforts of progressives who repeatedly spread the truth about that war. Due to the fortitude and perseverance of many progressive activists, even the corporate media couldnāt sweep uncomfortable, anti-establishment facts under the rug and down a public memory-hole.
Very importantly, activists have been able to use that valuable information and public influence to prevent (or at the very least seriously downgrade) new US aggression, and that saves many lives today. Weāve got a long way to go against deadly drone strikes and other aggressive foreign policies that induce defense corporation profits at nearly everyone elseās expense, but it would be very close-minded for us to also ignore all the gains made by progressive activism in the meantime.
In the past, it wouldāve been relatively trivial for the US to outright attack the Syrian government and eventually regress towards ten of thousands (or more) of American boots on the ground. Normally, weād be in an outright war with Syria by now and the death toll (and defense contractor profits) would be massively piling up.
But something very ā not normal ā happened. Instead, for the first time in American history, activists were able to inform the public (mostly via online vehicles) and foment enough public resistance to pressure our administration to mostly back down despite the vast power of our military-industrial complex. Not after the fact, but before we attacked.
It was so unprecedentedā¦ so remarkableā¦ and so amazingly dangerous to the current status quo that thereās been an overall corporate media blackout on that historic event. The last thing the corporate media wants the public to know is that progressive activism is powerful and that it fucking works. I think itās a shame that youāre letting them convince you otherwise as well.
What you should know is the ability to inform the public and influence our government was paved by the past efforts of activists just like YOU. If it wasnāt for your past efforts of spreading the truth and influence, activists would be in an incredibly regressive position today and would still be trying to pave the simplest of roads within our stubborn, public zeitgeist.
Nowā¦ back to Iraq and hoping the public doesnāt ānotice thingsāā¦
What many people donāt realize is the voices of the activists were actually heard by our government in the ramp-up to the Iraq War. The truth of the matter is the majority of Democrats voted against the Iraq War resolution. If it wasnāt for there being too many Republicans in office, the Iraq War resolution would have been roundly defeated.
Of course, you never really hear about that reality ā all you ever hear is that both the Democrats and Republicans voted for the war andā¦ false equivalence, ad nauseum. The truth is much more complexā¦ and that gets to the heart of why it always has been and alway will be an uphill battle for progressive activism and why it will always absolutely require perseverance. The truth doesnāt aways fit into a bumper sticker, but deceitful and over-simplistic talking points (and points of view) almost always certainly do.
Thatās just the way it works with progressive causes. Weāll always be at some disadvantage because weāre far less willing to break ethical boundaries than neocons, racists, neo-libertarians, etc. will do to achieve dissemination of information and achieve agendas. And, often the truth is messy and complicated while knee-jerk responses are simple and easy.
Fortunately, thoughā¦ we try to stick with the truth (to the best of our abilities) and that tends to slowly pervade over the long term despite shorter term setbacks we get from these foes and wayward liberals who soak up too many corporatist television talking points.
Since more progressives stick with the truth and organic, grassroots organizing and spread evidence instead of lies, we have the upper hand in the long term against those that embrace sensationalized hot button content and artificially trumped up numbers via astroturfing half-truths and lies that will later be debunked and used against them.
A great example is climate change. For a while there, the industry-sponsored neo-libertarian āthink tanksā very clearly had the upper hand disseminating quick talking points rife with half-truths and trumped up āstudiesā via astroturfing and bullshit āinstitutesā, etc.
However, over the long termā¦ the more complicated truth was spread from progressive activists via time-honored grassroots activism. Now, despite all the flash-in-the-pan, trumped up ācontroversiesā and other general bullshit the industry spread via their āthink tanksā and indoctrinated idiots, most people have gotten the truth on climate change and are becoming increasingly more apt to want our government to do something about it.
It can be discouraging when thereās setbacks and even the smallest positive changes seems glacial, but thatās how progressive change has always been and will always be. Iām sorry that youāve somehow come to believe that it would ever be any other way with progressive changes. Destructive agendas are easy, but constructive, progressive change is hard work and requires long term, ābig pictureā strategies that will see many setbacks over time.
By the very nature of the situation, thereās never going to be a lot of money in fighting against the power of money. Fighting against the most massive military-industrial complex ever seen by humanity is never going to be a walk in the park. Fighting against the most powerful public relations corporate mindfucks the world has ever seen isnāt going to be quick and easy. Itās all going to take decades of grinding, persistent work. Thatās reality, but fortunately thereās plenty of progressive activists that have been up to it and still are today.
tl;dr:
In the shorter termā¦ the lies, half-truths and sensationalized content and corporatist agendas will pervade. However, the sober truth will continue to slowly spread and overtake the corporatists and wayward people thatāve been indoctrinated. In the long term, the truth (or a least some of it) will prevail because progressive activists have vastly more heart, fortitude and persistence than these motherfuckers can even fathom.
Iām not here to dismiss you for wanting to give up at this point, and I thank you for all youāve already done. Everyone has their breaking point and it looks like you may have found yours (for now, at least). It also sounds like you may need to get your own personal, financial stability together and thereās absolutely nothing wrong with progressive activists doing that.
What I hope youāll take to heart is that there are people out here that appreciate what you did and far more good was done than you (unfortunately) can ever imagine. And, those same people arenāt giving up and will take it from here with more fire in our hearts than ever. You did help this world and donāt let anyone or any entity try to take that away from you.
I now live in a country where police violence, overt racism and sexism, corporate rule, surveillance, torture, corruption, and willful, science-hating, proud ignorance are not only the norm, they are beloved national values that the average citizen will stand up and defend.
Most Americans are against police brutality and thereās a growing resistance against it thatās reflected even within some of our corporate media. Weāve got a long way to go, but it wasnāt even much of a discussion in the past few decades until now. Rodney King was a cultural anomaly because it was caught on video at a time when it was a relatively nascent technology in the publicsā hands. However, the corporate media mostly ignored the issue beforehand and even afterwards.
It hasnāt gotten worse, itās just being reported on at this point and drawing vital attention to the problem. Cops didnāt start killing minorities in greater numbers in 2014ā¦. itās just that in 2014, weāre finally willing to talk about it in a meaningful way in the mainstream media. Please donāt mistake this belated, newfound attention for most of American society going backwards.
While racism is still a huge problem, itās on the decline for most Americans and it continues its decline as the old ways die off and the young replace those stale beliefs. The battle against racism will unfortunately always be with us and needs to be fought against, but please donāt convince yourself the racists are in the majority or āthe normā. They are not.
Corporate rule? Yep, but corporatist influence is on the decline and thereās many factors that show thereās a growing resistance to an aristocracy and aristocratic āidealsā. Just one exampleā¦ As recently as the early 2000ās, it would have been relatively trivial for corporate entities (via corporate media, etc.) to convince Americans that complicated things like network neutrality didnāt matter and keep everyone quiet about it.
On the other hand, in 2014, a record amount of public comment was sent to the FCC in support of net neutrality. This shows that Americans are increasingly bypassing corporate indoctrination and getting and sharing information with each other directly online. No doubt there is still vast influence and manufactured consent via corporate media, but thatās a situation on the decline, not on the rise.
Surveillance? Thanks to patriotic whistleblowers like Edward Snowden, weāre at least openly talking about it and if you throughly research the issue youāll find that many Americans are now taking steps against it personally and otherwise. Many more Americans than weāve ever seen, actually.
Also, unlike past history, weāre beginning to see much more widespread dissent from major corporations against surveillance and innovative developers working to decentralize and secure the net in more meaningful ways, etc.
I do think mass surveillance will get more widespread before it gets better, but in the meantime the public at large is hardly just sitting on their hands and ignoring it like they used to do. Polls show that the public is increasingly wary of the NSA. Beforehand, in relatively recent history, they would be marginalized and subjected to tinfoil hat insults. Now, thereās developers and businesses dedicating themselves to appealing to them. Now privacy-conscious Americans are becoming an important demographicā¦ and, I see that as progress.
Torture? Again, I think youāre mistaking the coverage of an issue for an issue getting worse. Please keep in mind, torture is now finally being addressed in a mostly negative light. In the past, it either wasnāt addressed at all or was even actively promoted by Dr. Evil ā¦er, noā¦ the Cheney administration the Bush administration. Far too many Americans still believe that torture is needed, but a growing percentage are learning that itās ineffective, immoral and dangerous for everyone involved. That, again, is progress ā not regression.
As far as the rest of your grievances go that anti-science, ignorance, etc. is āthe normā, I ask that you look at what happened in recent history in the United States.
After Obama said he supported a single payer system for health care (not Obamacare) along with an anti-war agenda, a lot of progressive activists got behind him. The same kind of activists that organized door-to-door grassroots āget out the voteā campaigns, etc. that drastically shaped the political landscape before election day. You may note that Obama didnāt follow through and had massive Wall Street funding for his campaign, but thatās not the point.
The point is that Obama, the 2008 candidate, ran on a platform that included focusing on alternative energy adoption, a true single payer system for health care and an anti-war, anti-bankster, pro-labor agenda overall.
Obama ran on that truly progressive platform and he won in an absolute landslide. This landslide victory clearly shows thereās a progressive majority of voters in the United States who will come out and vote for a progressive agenda.
The corporate media simply repeats the talking point that the majority of the public is right wing until it starts to sound true, but their charade has been exposed since that 2008 election for anyone who is willing to look. And, that talking point is clearly a lie.
If the majority of the American public was right wing, thereād be no way in hell Obama would have had the largest turnout of voters in 40 years.
Studies have shown that most Americans want things like a true single payer system for health care once itās properly explained to them and Obamaās landslide win confirms it.
A āright wingā American public didnāt vote for Obama on a progressive platform in a landslide. Please really think about these facts:
ā¢ After Obama announced his initial progressive agenda that included things like support for single payer, he had the highest voter turnout in 40 years.
ā¢ After Obama and other Democrats failed to properly follow through on most of his progressive promises, voter turnout for the midterms was the lowest in 72 years. The midterms are historically low, but that was ridiculous.
This clearly shows that the majority of the American voters really do want a progressive agenda initiated and they are incredibly displeased when itās not followed through by enough real action.
Thatās the true ānormā in America that most of the corporate media would like us all to ignore.
Look, the progressive battle is still ongoing (itās not lost!) and one thing that will help is to stop spreading apathy by propagating the untruth that the right wing is the majority or āthe normā in this country and thereās nothing we can do about it.
Again, I thank you for your service to this country with your former activism and I hope youāll reconsider the untruth that it was all for nothing ā because it was far from it and weāre a far better people today because of progressive activism.
Happy holidays.
Welcome back! nice to see ya make up for your absence in one post. 
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