This comic makes privilege incredibly easy to understand

[anon15383236]

@Medievalist

@anon15383236, as a phrase I much prefer “de facto white supremacy” to “white privilege”. I would think my preference would be obvious (but maybe I’m the one projecting my cognitive model now). “Structural racism” is preferable, too. You can go places from there, it’s not a dead end.

Really? Your problem with “white privilege” is that the deep structural understanding that explains it is unknown to most white people (and so the term is obnoxious and hackle-raising to them), but you’re okay with “de facto white supremacy”?! It seems to me that the latter is even more risible to most white people, so convinced are they that we live not in a country that remains fundamentally white supremacist, but rather, a “postracial” one where, if any group is victimized these days, it’s white people.

On another basic point, and as @daneel basically just pointed out, you seem to think the term “white privilege” encompasses all privilege – maybe, that the people using it are claiming as they do so that other kinds don’t exist? Despite explanations offered above, you still seem to be saying that the term doesn’t make sense because in this country, both rich black people and poor white people exist, so how could the latter possibly be said to have “privilege” that the former doesn’t have?

Well, the former has class privilege, but the latter has white privilege. And if one is gay and the other not, one has heterosexual privilege. As McIntosh put it almost 30 years ago in the title of her essay, male privilege also exists. White privilege is just one kind of privilege, is it not?

[anon61221983]

I agree with you… There might be plenty to be grateful for, but it seems to me that the term “gratitude” as a replacement for “privilege” just serves reinforce the individual rather than point out the individuals relationship to others in our society.

[dewimorgan]

“Rich”? HAHAHAHahano. “Wealth” isn’t one of my privileges, sadly. My wife and I do have a plethora of privileges which make my lack of cash less painful, though: people employ, like, and trust me, and resist letting me go even when money gets tight. We have a support network of family and friends.

Largely because of these privileges, I’m no longer starving or homeless: we have a car, a roof over our heads, and food on the table. And it’s getting even better! In the last year, as well as our normal bills, we’ve finally been able to afford health care (thank you Obama!), to get our taxes settled (emptied our savings, but we were ABLE TO!), and even to start saving for my citizenship application: so far, I’ve saved $430, it costs $650, so I’ll get there in 3 months if health bills don’t wipe it out again. Heck, I’ve even been able to afford to be a little morally choosy about where I shop for groceries (bye, Walmart!)

So, OK, I am really well off, comparatively. But I don’t yet have investment-level quantities of cash to throw at the problem.

Frankly, even if I did, I’d likely throw it at other problems anyway (net neutrality, etc). So, without cash, what ELSE is there that can be done, beyond lobbying one’s representatives to not be ass-hats (eh, I live in Texas, low odds of success, but I try), signing lots of petitions, striving to support moral local businesses, and sharing those values in social media?

[anon61221983]

I, too, need to know the thoughts of @TobinL on this issue, because reasons.

[FunkDaddy]

[OtherMichael]

I see your BB, and raise you a solo OB (DE):

Life’s been so good to me
Has it been good to you
Has it been everything
That you expected it to be
Was it as good for you
As it was good for me
And was it everything
That it was all set up to be
(now is that gratitude)

Now is that gratitude

Or is it really love
Some kind of reality
That fits just like a glove
Now is that gratitude
For everything i’ve done
Or is it something else
That’s got me on the run

In the middle of a big tornado
On the tip of everyone’s tongue
In the belly of a giant whale
All the girls just wanna have fun
In the look of a frightened neighbor
In a big warm bed at night
In a broken elevator
In the teeth of a dog that bites
In the middle of a revolution
In the look of a child’s face
In the silence of the dinner table
In the stillness of disgrace

(i used to eat little girls i knew
For breakfast
I used to fly high up in the sky
I used to chew up rocks and
Spit out gravel
I had a heart as cold as ice)

But when i think of you
And what you’ve done to me
You took away my hope
You took away my fantasy
I once had lots of pride
The world was in my hands
I lived way at the top
Of castles made of sand

Ooh . . .
I dream of you sometimes
Ooh . . .
I dream of you sometimes

In the middle of a big tornado . . .

Life’s been so good to me . . .

---

@TobinL - do you even Boingo, bro?

[dewimorgan]

@Purplecat

Just trawl through a few threads on the bbs, and you’ll find people making huge assumptions about colour, gender and so on, with no evidence to back it up, because we’re all just strings of text and avatars.

True - was just tickled to discover that I come across as rich!

This is why I added the comment about writing styles - it’s what makes me judge people the most. I’ve discovered that most of my projections and assumptions online are entirely wrong, but even after a quarter century online, I still make assumptions. Typically, though, my assumptions tend to be towards the “default person” - that is, unless other evidence presents, I assume a well-educated white male of around my age, and somewhat higher wealth So I think that’s a net positive, since it means I treat people more alike than otherwise.

@Purplecat

Good question. “What is to be done?”

Your suggestions basically boil down to: be a good citizen, and not an ass-hat. Which, I admit, is all I can come up with, too, and not just for equality, but for all the social and political problems we have. Perhaps the only change we can make on issues like this is incremental.

It just… yeah, like you say, feels like a brick wall. Except, no, it feels worse than that. Even at my best and most effective, I feel like I’m putting grains of sand on a giant sandcastle, as the tide rushes in. I can’t even defend what we already have, the rights constantly being eroded, the privilege and wealth gap constantly growing wider, and even en masse, all we can do is slow down the inevitable

[anon15383236]

@Purplecat

Good question. “What is to be done?”

I like your starting list, and would add: realize there are a lot of active forms of struggle going on out there, and find ways to take part, respectfully. For example:

11 Things White People Can Do to Be Real Anti-Racist Allies

[Medievalist]

@japhroaig, I’m objecting to the verbiage being incessantly interjected into every public forum, not to the conceptual structure. Dynamite’s great stuff, but you place it carefully, you don’t just throw it everywhere including into your own engine compartment.

@daneel, if there weren’t any “non-whites” enjoying “white privilege” we would not have shortened the phrase passing for white to just passing. My daughter can pass for white if she dresses very carefully and does not allow the sun to ever reach her skin. She can pass for hispanic or Indian (Asian Indian, that is) even easier. Thankfully she does not have to, because she is highly privileged.

@anon15383236, de facto white supremacy works for me. It may well be that others would object, though. In my conversations, I generally talk about unearned privilege and structural racism and related inequalities of economic and educational opportunity instead of invoking WP. I have had some small success in bringing formerly racist people to broaden their understanding (emphasis on small, but hopefully it all adds up). I’m still working on getting the local highly privileged Asian and White folks to understand that they are actively harming our community by sending their children to state-funded charter and magnet schools. Not much progress yet, but grinding away at it. I find that when I talk about unearned privilege instead of white privilege, I can invoke a deep memetic structure that is distinct from racial identity, and prevent confusion of memes. Most Americans like to think they earned their rights and privileges, and hate to think somebody else worked just as hard and didn’t get paid. We know we aren’t a meritocracy, but we kind of want to be one.

[Purplecat]

Yeah, this is where we’re just always going to differ, I guess.

I’m not looking for for “allies” or to be one, because the fight for equality is everyone’s fight, equally.
“This is your role because of the colour of your skin” is what I’m fighting against, whoever’s doing it.

[Medievalist]

I think we are totally on the same wavelength.

Edit: Since I have loved ones of all kinds of ethnic background and skin tone, your post has reminded me of Antinous’s pointed comments about “allies”… I think in essence he said allies always run when the billy clubs come out, you have to be in the fight for yourself before you’ll go the real distance. His words were a bit more, um, inflammatory. Anyway I’m in this fight for me, and I’m glad you are too.

[anon33466019]

@Medievalist

Not much progress yet, but grinding away at it. I find that when I talk about unearned privilege instead of white privilege, I can invoke a deep memetic structure that is distinct from racial identity, and prevent confusion of memes.

I appreciate your thoughts. I still disagree though. The suppression of rights due to laws, nepotism, and bias are still evident today. They shouldn’t be, but they are. How many years did my father serve for armed robbery (one)? Was he killed in the process (no)? What is the ratio of Caucasian to other ethnicities in our prison system, as compared to the general population?

Why are black individuals 2% of google, while they are 18% of the population?

Building a Sense of Belonging at Google and Beyond

for the next hundred years it is gonna be about racial identity. we are still too close to the Bang that says we can move past racial identity. generational inequality based on racial lines isn’t going to disappear for a long time. but we can all help.

[Medievalist]

I always like talking to you, too!

But I can’t condemn the racist right’s constant harping on “black criminality” and at the same time give the literate left a pass on “white privilege”.

G’night, all.

[anon15383236]

@Medievalist

But I can’t condemn the racist right’s constant harping on “black criminality” and at the same time give the literate left a pass on “white privilege”.

I think that’s because, for some reason, you simply refuse to acknowledge just what “white privilege” actually means, both to the person who originated the term and to those who have used it afterward. Sounds like you have your reasons for being so obstinate. No one’s perfect.

G’night to you too.

[nam73]

Sure, there are always exceptions to a statistically dominant scenario. The problem is that they are still exceptions.

A poor family can work 4 jobs and get their kid into law school. A rich family can be abusive and drive a promising student to drugs and despair.

But the key to change is to not get distracted by the exceptions & anecdotal, and instead work on the larger trend

[anon67050589]

I totally agree with you. I was simply responding to a post claiming that because some students in every classroom aren’t as dedicated to education, this means white privilege isn’t really the problem. Since schools are overwhelmingly NOT diverse in student populations, everyone in a given class is likely to be similar in race and economic class. So, even in classes with all middle class or wealthy white kids, you’re still going to have some whose family situation hobbles them from living up to their potential. This does not mean that privilege in our society is not a dominant factor.