To find Hillary Clinton likable, we must learn to view women complexly

[bobzwrz]

@StrawBoss

Saying that people don’t find her likeable because of her gender is insulting and a lazy way of excusing her MANY failings.

Fuckin’ A, friend.

[tlwest]

I will admit that politicians who are not good / inspirational / motivating public speakers, I don’t respect as much (John Kerry comes to mind, Gore to some extent)

@Enkita

If the human race is still to be around in a few hundred years, this is exactly the attitude that we need to expose as the root cause of many of our troubles.

Why? If the end goal is happiness, I think we’re stuck with the fact that most humans are happier working in “bad” conditions under a charismatic leader than under “good” conditions with a disliked one.

Seems ludicrous to me, but then I’ve got just enough self-reflection to understand that what works for me often isn’t suitable policy for standard issue humans.

[bobzwrz]

It occurs to me that Clinton and Trump may find each other likeable.

[bobzwrz]

@tlwest

most humans are happier working in “bad” conditions under a charismatic leader than under “good” conditions with a disliked one.

This is why Jimmy Carter, a decent and intelligent man, was not re-elected. Just too much of the hair shirt, closing-time-gents, no patent leather shoes for the girls mentality about him.

And it’s why Bill Clinton cruised to election twice.

[LearnedCoward]

@JesusCouto

By all means one may think a leftist Democrat would be better, but the current choice is between run-of-the-mill, more-of-the-same Democrat and playing Russian Roulette.

My point exactly.

You can get me to prefer her over the other guy, and you can even get me to vote for her if I’m shit scared enough, but you can’t get me to like voting for her. That reason has nothing to do with sexism, it has to do with her politics.

[bobzwrz]

@d_r

Are you suggesting that Obama was already a tool of the banks before he was elected?

Well, he did vote for TARP.

[wrecksdart]

@chromakey

Clinton appears to be an anointed high priestess of the evil cult

Oh, ho! How great, a link to “Mammon”. She’s “a devil” haha, so new, so fresh. Any chance you’d like to follow that up with “hang the bitch” or maybe an anecdote about her menstrual cycles? “Make me a sandwich”, maybe?

[anon73430903]

This might be the only way to move the Democrats to the left

Entryism

I’m not a fan of Trotskyism or their tactics, but does anyone have any better ideas?

[wrecksdart]

@anon26625345

It’s not about being “afraid” of Trump, it’s about recognising that the Trail of Tears and Japanese Internment were two of the most shameful periods in your nation’s history and recognising your moral responsibility to make sure nothing like that ever happens again, by making sure that someone who openly advocates deportation policies doesnt even get within spitting distance of the White House.

You shouldn’t be scared of him, you should be embarrassed and ashamed that your fellow countrymen are even considering voting for him, and you should be angry enough to want to stop a candidate with ties to neo Nazis and the KKK from becoming president.

Reposting this for truth. How many of us have forgotten that trump wants to get rid of all the darkies? That he’s happy to upend every part of the international political order, that he finds Putin, of all people, to be a not-so-bad guy? But hey, I’m sure his deportation squads will be so very gentle! The Best Gentle There Is!

Also tacking on this bit at the end, re: “likability”,

@L_Mariachi

It’s not part of your mechanic’s job to build coalitions and get other people on board with the repair program. Your surgeon doesn’t need to convince the nurses and anaesthesiologist that the planned procedure is correct.

100% agreed.

[SqualusAcanthias]

@tlwest

If the end goal is happiness, I think we’re stuck with the fact that most humans are happier working in “bad” conditions under a charismatic leader than under “good” conditions with a disliked one.

How about working in good conditions under a competent, charismatic leader?

I know, I know, but theoretically.

[chromakey]

I am not your straw man. I am also not your enemy, even if you don’t want to be friendly or nice. There are better web forums than BBS.boingboing, if you’re looking for a place to satirize or mock the earnest opinion of others instead of genuinely engage. I’m naturally offended that you would paint me as some sort of misogynist, especially given the valid concerns clustered around this candidate and the state and credibility of the US two-party system more generally.

I guess I just can’t win. I go onto a general web forum, and it’s widely assumed I blindly support Hillary Clinton because I have the appearance of a liberal in mixed company. I come here and apparently it’s assumed I support Trump if I don’t give Clinton unequivocal support despite her deep flaws.

This political system can shove this bullshit right back up its own ass, I’ve had it. The United State of America is deeply broken and is more likely to stumble and fall in the darkness than fix itself.

[anon67050589]

@bobzwrz

If your position is “anyone who is voting for someone other than Clinton needs to reexamine their racist preconceptions”, there just isn’t a whole lot for us to discuss here.

Isn’t that necessary for everyone to do, no matter which candidate they support?

[MarjaE]

It drives me nuts that some Democrats dismiss honest criticism of Clinton …

(such as “she voted for the Iraq War, but we need to find a way to stop that other guy, who supported the Iraq War, supports torture, allies with neo-Nazis, and would probably get us nuked…”)

… as shilling for Trump.

[wrecksdart]

What room is there for genuine engagement if you’re comparing HRC to Mammon? Did I write that post for you? Did I insert the link into your post?

In addition, we’re commenting in an article with a thrust best stated by @erroneus:

@erroneus

The point is that latent sexism guides public discourse and rhetoric.

Perhaps my response to that is clearer now?

Finally, my initial point was that you appear to want the perfect candidate, which does not and will never exist.

[chromakey]

@wrecksdart

What room is there for genuine engagement if you’re comparing HRC to Mammon?

If you know what Mammon is and you’ve been paying attention to Clinton’s campaign, how can you not agree with the comparison? Has she condemned SuperPACs in secret to you? Has she given back contributions made from the financial sector for speeches given in secrecy from the public? Has she made campaign corruption and reform a cornerstone of her campaign? No? Well, then. Mammon it is. Not because I’m looking to land a cheap shot but because that is the reality of the situation in front of us.

[bobzwrz]

That’s a fair point. I think everyone has some racist preconceptions, including me, you, Hillary Clinton, and Jill Stein.

But I don’t hold with the use of “examine your racist preconceptions” as a verbal bullying tool when the speaker does not approve of my voting for Stein.

[wrecksdart]

No thanks, I’m done in here.

[anon27822705]

@Mangochin

It was a pretty narrow field for Democrats running for president. It was an all expenses paid cruise to the Island of Misfit Toys for the Republicans.

The Democrats basically got out of her way, except for Sanders. I wish that guy were 20 years younger so he’d have a shot in 2024.

[anotherone]

What was said was Hillary is the “most qualified human being to ever run for president of the United States”
Not that she is the most qualified currently running. But rather ever. As in all time. There are at least 18 past presidents who had equal or greater experience prior to taking office.

@pyramus

She’s been a political animal for 55 years and in the vicinity of the highest offices for over twenty of those. … But it is hard to imagine another living American who has her breadth of experience.

We’ll give her a pass that her first real political interest was supporting Nixon and then becoming a self proclaimed Goldwater girl. Not very wise choices but she was young. She then became a first lady for a few decades, first of Arkansas and then of the US. She has served as an elected representative for only the past 16 years.
Sanders has been politically active and on the side of the people (not Nixon and Goldwater) for 53 years and has been an elected representative for 35 years.
Sanders is much more experienced politically and based on his decision making capabilities, he also seems more qualified. I’m not stumping for Sanders here. I’m just pointing out that Hillary isn’t more experienced or qualified than other candidates.

[Snowlark]

But wasn’t Sanders’ experience all within the capacity of a legislator and representative? That’s an earnest question, I really don’t know much about his distant past. It just seems to me that Clinton’s experience is more diverse, with some of her positions being a phone call away from POTUS. (As First Lady, a pillow away.)