The NRA is the opposite of reasonable or nuanced. These are people who literally blamed Obama for the Orlando shooting.
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A âheartâ is the wrong way for me to appreciate the overwhelming truth of what you said 
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I said if you want reasonable gun control you will fight the NRA, obviously unreasonable gun control if fine. Thatâs literally what I said. I also said itâs gun control either way.
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Thanks for coming to work this week!
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[quote=âACE, post:19, topic:79843â]
Well thought out, like the NRAâs position on watch lists?..Seems reasonable and nuanced to me, and not very different from the ACLUâs position.[/quote]
Sure, now get someone to bring a bill forward taking those positions and only those positions, and watch them flip theirs. Bonus points if they blame Obama for âplaying politicsâ.
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Looks like the NRA never explicitly stated their support for the Cornyn amendment, but most republicans voted for it, and it matches the NRAâs stated position (Anyone on a terror watchlist who tries to buy a gun should be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and the sale delayed while the investigation is ongoing. If an investigation uncovers evidence of terrorist activity or involvement, the government should be allowed to immediately go to court, block the sale, and arrest the terrorist. At the same time, due process protections should be put in place). Similar text was later introduced as a standalone bill by Congressman Lee Zeldin, see H.R.4237
SA 2912. Mr. CORNYN submitted an amendment intended to be proposed to amendment SA 2874 proposed by Mr. McConnell to the bill H.R. 3762, to provide for reconciliation pursuant to section 2002 of the concurrent resolution on the budget for fiscal year 2016; as follows:
At the appropriate place, insert the following:
TITLE __âPROTECT AMERICA ACT OF 2015
SECTION _01. SHORT TITLE.
This title may be cited as the Protect America Act of 2015 .
SEC. _02. GRANTING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE AUTHORITY TO DENY THE SALE, DELIVERY, OR TRANSFER OF FIREARMS TO DANGEROUS TERRORISTS; REQUIRING INFORMATION SHARING REGARDING ATTEMPTED FIREARMS PURCHASES BY SUSPECTED TERRORISTS; AUTHORIZING THE INVESTIGATION AND ARREST OF TERRORISTS WHO ATTEMPT TO PURCHASE FIREARMS.
(a) Short Title.âThis section may be cited as the Preventing Terrorists From Obtaining Firearms Act of 2015 .
(b) Amendments.âSection 922(t) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
(7)(A) If the Attorney General is notified of a request to transfer a firearm to a person who is a known or suspected terrorist, the Attorney General shallâ
(i) as appropriate, take further steps to confirm the identity of the prospective transferee and confirm or rule out the suspected nexus to terrorism of the prospective transferee;
(ii) as appropriate, notify relevant Federal, State, or local law enforcement agencies or intelligence agencies concerning the identity of the prospective transferee; and
(iii) determine whether the prospective transferee is already the subject of an ongoing terrorism investigation and, as appropriate, initiate such an investigation.
(B) Upon being notified of a prospective transfer under subparagraph (A), the Attorney General or the United States attorney for the district in which the licensee is located mayâ
(i) delay the transfer of the firearm for a period not to exceed 72 hours; and
(ii) file an emergency petition in a court of competent jurisdiction to prohibit the transfer of the firearm.
(C)(i) An emergency petition filed under subparagraph (B)(ii) shall be granted upon a showing of probable cause to believe that the transferee has committed or will commit an act of terrorism.
(ii) In the case of an emergency petition filed under subparagraph (B)(ii) to prohibit the transfer of a firearm, the petition may only be granted after a hearingâ
(I) of which the transferee receives actual notice; and
(II) at which the transferee has an opportunity to participate with counsel.
(D) The Attorney General may arrest and detain any transferee with respect to whom an emergency petition is granted under subparagraph (C).
(E) For purposes of this paragraph- -
(i) the term "known or suspected terroristâ means a person determined by the Attorney General to be known (or appropriately suspected) to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism, or providing material support or resources for terrorism;
(ii) the term material support or resources has the meaning given the term in section 2339A; and
(iii) the term "terrorismâ includes international terrorism and domestic terrorism, as defined in section 2331.
Iâd expect a bill omitting key phrases like âpetition in courtâ, âprobable causeâ, âpetition may only be granted after a hearingâ and âtransferee has an opportunity to participate with counselâ to be opposed by multiple groups, including the ACLU and yes, the NRA.
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Being a convicted criminal is one thing, being a suspect is another. Being on the âwatchlistâ that is defined by a secretive process, not open to legal challenge, and held by an organization that has a history of incompetence and inaccurate record keeping is another matter entirely. We wouldnât allow any agency to take away a personâs right to vote, for instance, based on a similar systemâŚ(well we kinda do, but at least we object to it - thatâs a debate for another time.)
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Iâm aware of how touchy opinions are of no-fly lists and the concept of taking away someoneâs rights because of a vague suspicion. No, someoneâs right to vote or travel shouldnât be taken away because theyâve exercised their right to freedom of speech to criticize the government or say alarming things. But Iâm not convinced that the right to own a weapon whose sole purpose is the killing of as many humans as possible should be protected in the same way.
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To be fair, republicans reading childrenâs literature is less about style than necessity
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What part of the NRAâs policy on gun control is âwell thought out and researchedâ? What part of their MO respects evidence based policy?
I would contend that if you want gun control that is âwell thought out and researchedâ then you are forced to bypass your NRA. They donât live in that world.
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Hillary / Warren 2016!!! Team America FUCK YEAH!
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Whether it should be protected in the same way is, for better or for worse, not really up for debate. The second amendment has been found by the Supreme Court to be an individual right, just like freedom of association, the right to free speech, the right to due process, etc. Try though they might, I donât think any law restricting gun sales based on only a suspicion, and one that canât be challenged, would pass scrutiny.
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Republicans are going to use the same strategy as they have for holding judicial hearings. They will fail to do their jobs.
And the âgreatâ thing is that the list will grow appreciably while youâre reading it - filibuster for evah!
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Isnât there like one a week where ndead >3?
Why is this even a âright?â Do we believe we have a right to own a flask of smallpox? An ingot of radium? A nuclear weapon?
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You canât own every kind of weapon. So why not add another restriction?
Itâs also an amendment.
Which means it can change.
Like the 21st Amendment.
Which means we need to discuss it and not just accept it as an unchanging document.
Do you fear change?
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I see youâre new here- welcome.
Before we launch into a debate about what the 2nd Amendment does (and doesnât) say, we should probably start with the first.
It doesnât say what you think it does. You absolutely do not have the right to write âanything you want.â You absolutely donât have the right to demand respect for the things you write.
The only right it grants you is the (limited) ability to write whatever you want without fear of government prosecution. Nobody has to listen to you, and you can face all sorts of social consequences for what you say. You can be fired. You can be banned from communities. You can be alienated by others. All sorts of stuff.
And itâs a limited right- there are all sorts of things you arenât allowed to say that the government can prosecute you for. And you can be sued by individuals for all manner of other things.
Now that Iâve cleared that up for you, maybe weâre ready for a conversation about the 2nd Amendment. But Iâm tired, and youâre not really interested in anyone elseâs viewpoint, are you?
Goodnight.
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Itâs tricky to get researched gun-control legislation after the NRA lobbied for a ban on the CDC researching gun violence, at least in any instance where it could be seen as advocating for gun control â which any research backing gun control legislation would by definition do.
So, if we can get that ban lifted, then we can talk about research-driven legislation. Until then all we got is politics, and the Democrats are trying to leverage that to get some form of progress now.
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The NRA does not want terrorists or dangerous people to have firearms, any suggestion otherwise is offensive and wrong," said Jennifer Baker, director of public affairs. "Under the current system, law enforcement is notified every time a person on the list attempts to purchase a firearm. Law Enforcement then makes a case by case decision on the appropriate follow-up for each circumstance. The NRAâs only objective is to ensure that Americans who are wrongly on the list are afforded their constitutional right to due process.
That is not a new position, the above is dated November 20, 2015 and was later used in their reaction to the Feinstein amendment, a proposal with no requirement for probable cause to deny a transaction, and few provisions for due process.
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