Watch the UK's Brexit negotiator explain his frank realization that Britain is an island


#81

I got the impression that the majority of Brexiters didn’t understand what all leaving the EU would entail.


#82

You might think that, numerous well-respected legal scholars would disagree with you.

But then you can find numerous well respected legal scholars to disagree with anything. That’s is what they do after all, so there is that.

Some of it is yes. The ‘constitution not changed’ response to that is that it is only of direct effect because Parliament said so. If Parliament decided to expressly say that x- Regulation is not to be followed, that would be perfectly legitimate as far as the UK is concerned.

Yup. And none of them are relevant to the constitutional analysis. That’s just what happens when you break treaties.

Constitutionally there is nothing to stop Parliament doing it.

You’ll enjoy these then:

Just a few minor matters to deal with. With no idea whether the expense and hassle will be needed or completely wasted.


#83

Well, of course, that’s mostly because the Tory leader is a Remainer who has found herself in charge of a party of Leavers, and the Labour leader is a Leaver* who has found himself in charge of a party of Remainers…
No wonder there’s a lack of clear messaging!

*he’s my MP, and represents a constituency that voted hugely in favour of Remain. And he certainly didn’t campaign overtly for Leave; if anything he campaigned for Remain. But he’s also a part of the “old left” which has always had a somewhat tentative relationship with the EU.


#84

Propaganda works when it reinforces stereotypes with fear, and plays upon the greed of the populace.

People voted for Brexit / Trump / Bolsonaro / whatever because internally they’re bigots who don’t like foreigners, gays, immigrants, refugees, or other religions. These are not good people who got suckered in by Murdoch et al; they’re racists, homophobes, xenophobes, and/or fundamentalists. They don’t deserve a pass for fucking over our countries just because “newspapers made ‘em do it”. They are inherently intolerant shits who relished the idea that they could anonymously vote to kick out whatever minorities they happen to hate.

So no, I fully blame the deplorables. Because they are.


#85

I know, and while I understand why for within-party political reasons May decided to embrace the leave campaign when she took office, I assumed - obviously mistakenly - that she’d find a way to gradually ease the UK into a second referendum.

May is my age, and not a toff like Rees-Mogg, so surely old enough to remember how miserable England was before accession in 1975. (England was miserable under Heath, it was miserable under Wilson’s 2nd term, and while it was miserable under Thatcher that was because Thatcher was pioneering radically new ways for the Tory party to be evil, but at least by the 80s you could go to the greengrocer and get something other than turnips and cabbage, even where I lived north of the M62.) Why would any normal person want to return to that?


#86

I think you answered your own question there. :slight_smile:
May is not, by definition, a “normal” person, simply by virtue of becoming PM - I recall an anecdote in which she was cross that Thatcher got to be the first female PM because she had wanted to be. May is probably more single-minded than Thatcher ever really was, and once she’s committed to something, she really doesn’t back out even as it collapses under her; the 2017 General Election was a good demonstration of that - a sane PM would have accepted what she was being told by the results and at least talked to the opposition parties about Brexit but no, she insisted on rowing her own canoe further and further up the famous creek…


#87

The “Fog In Channel, Continent Cut Off” headline is, to the best of my knowledge, apocryphal.
But it is also the perfect encapsulation of a mindset that is a thing amongst certain Britons (or rather, in this case, English).

Disclaimer: our family tree has a sturdy British branch. None of us think that Brexit is a good idea.


#88

“There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”


#89

I’m going to have to borrow this, this is gold.


#90

#91

I’m for a hard Brexit. It has to hurt, the more the better. Some people only learn that way from their errors. It’ll hurt us too but the bigger hit will be felt in the UK. If that’s what’s needed to cure stupid I’m all for it.


#92

And now we have the martial law planning.


#93

The slim Brexit majority is part of the greater cancer of nationalism, the same that caused the conflagration that ended 100 years ago today and the same that drove the “sequel”. Macron put it very succinctly during the Remembrance Day ceremonies

“Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism. Nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism. By saying our interests first, who cares about the others, we erase what a nation holds dearest, what gives it life, what makes it great and what is essential: its moral values.”

No country is an exception, not the UK, not the U.S. (whose head of state is a proud nationalist), and not other countries – including the one that’s seeing a resurgence of right-wing populism and nationalist bigotry despite its sense of a “special responsibility” to renounce such things.


#94

Reminds me of when Trump took to the airwaves to explain (in the manner of someone explaining a fact he just learned himself) that Puerto Rico is surrounded by ocean.


#95

#96

Ah, this is the one I was looking for:


#97

From the article:

She added: “Also, I always had this moustache. Can’t be a proper dictator without a moustache.”

There’s a Scottish player for the Cardiff City EPL team who is currently sporting a full-on Hitler look.


#98

And equally to the point but something never heard about in all the ‘news’ discussions about the border problem regarding trade, goods, etc., without a hard border how will the Faragists and other johnny-foreigner-hating scum sleep at night knowing that thousands of Romanians or Hungarians, etc. can get a ferry to Ireland and then just walk into the UK!


#99

Dunning-Kruger effect is also strong in the voters themselves. It’s a problem, but democracy is still the least worst method. Hence my oft-repeated prescription: EDUCATION!


#100

Try telling that to the umpteen food factories dotted around the country which rely on regular daily or multi-daily supplies of ‘foodstuff’ ingredients, delivered by road, to keep their 24x7 production processes and equipment running. Much of this will likely have been in the middle of the Channel scant hours before being made into what passes for food in this benighted country