Why would we ever think that for-profit healthcare is a good thing?
I don’t want some group of people making decisions about my health based on shareholders. Why would you not want nice even blanket healthcare for everyone? Eliminate the worry, right? Sure, if you’re rich you can go buy more/different/whatever…
I just don’t get it. We do k-12 education because it’s the right thing to do. Keep our population healthy is the right thing to do, too. While we’re at it, we should keep them fed and housed. Because that’s the point, right? I mean, why would we not want these things?
I feel like it comes down to some variation on loss aversion. That’s all I can think of.
BIL: “An educated populace is necessary for a democracy and critical to every civilization.”
Me: "So is one that is alive and healthy. "
BIL: "I don’t want to pay for healthcare for drug addicts and others who have made poor life decisions. No thank you. "
Me: “There are plenty of people who have cancer who made NO bad life decisions.”
SIL: “They can still vote then.”
Me (to self): I give up.
I’ve made the exact same argument within k-12 education. It went like this:
Me: Kids need to learn.
Righty: Yes- we want kids educated.
Me: Kids can’t learn if they have an empty stomach.
Righty: Yes. Kids should not be hungry.
Me: We should feed them breakfast so they can learn.
Righty: WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS IS I’M NOT PAYING FOR THAT.
I really think what it comes down to is a hatred for the poor — they are poor and needy because they are lazy and worthless. And if they cared enough about their lives and the lives of their family, they would go out and find work at an employer that subsidizes their heath care costs. The gov’t should not have mercy upon these people because it’s not the government’s place to have mercy.
With public education, it’s harder – albeit not impossible – to vilify kids who are in need of an education. It’s not their fault they need an education, they need the education by virtue of existing. Combine that with
a) the system has been in place for several generations, and “works” so it’s cool
b) local control feels less government-y
c) funding via local property taxes means you’re paying for the education of kids generally like your own kid. Own an expensive home in an an expensive town, pay lots of taxes, get great education. Live in a lousy town, well that’s not my problem is it.
I’m not sure I’d go so far as “hatred of the poor” but I’d put a strong bet on loss aversion playing a major role.
For example:
I’m very happy to have myhealthcare paid for by others but I am totally not ok paying for someone else’shealthcare.
I would say “fear” rather than hatred or contempt. The fear that someday it could be you or your loved ones. Some people lash out when fearful (in dogs, it’s called “fear aggression”).
From over the Pacific, it looks like the evil USAnian elite have busily been fostering arrogance and stupidity; inviting the populace for decades to wallow in a vile orgy of small-minded, hateful, individualistic hubris.
This atmosphere of blind self-congratulation divides and conquers the collective, paving the way for the community to be bulldozed away in a coup d’etat of corruption, to be replaced with a user-pays private insurance circle of hell.
Worse yet, the rancid, subhuman filth peddling this fucking nightmare have been colonising the globe with this poison insanity, rapidly eroding anything you can point to as a favourable comparison.
America, you’ve created this brand of Chicago-school scum - it’s your responsibility to fucking eradicate this foul vermin. Get the fuck onto it, yesterday.
One contributes through general taxation, and no-one checks if you’ve been paying your taxes before treatment, or grades your treatment according to how much tax you’ve paid. So, yeah, no, I guess?
This is another part of the comparison that would be worth exploring. I still remembering the feeling of bizarre vertigo in “Welfare States in Comparison” in college when it sunk in that there is no objectively logical reason that health insurance should be provided by an employer, and in fact that this is an insane relationship. That it had been an accident of history and unintended consequences really bowled me over.
I wonder what the reaction would be if people who make the “get a job that offers it” argument were to imagine a hypothetical world where other social services, like public education, were also workplace-dependent. It would be a good way to frame the ridiculous notion that every company should somehow have knowledge of health insurance. Imagine the logistical nightmare it would be for a company’s HR department to also be providing/managing schooling options…
I touched upon that. He’s hard to debate or even discuss things with at times. I told him that employer provided heath insurance originated with employers trying to provide as insurance as benefit in order to save the employee from paying income taxes if the money would have voluntarily used to buy health insurance. Less taxes paid overall, and employee walks away even steven. He started asking me what decade was this, what type of employees, but yes … it’s rather insane. The whole current system complicates matters – makes it LOOK like you aren’t paying for anyone else’s insurance but your own (with the help of your employer who foots some percentage of the premiums that is normally not disclosed).
Every time you buy something from a company with more than X employees (50 I think) you’re paying for someone else’s healthcare. Oh and yeah your tax dollars too - local, state, and federal. And the sales tax you pay – part of that goes to state employee benefits.
I almost suggested that we tie the education of our children to the employers of their parents – they could pay say 75% of the tuition. But I was getting nowhere in the conversation that was intended to be a CONVERSATION but was taken to be a debate. It’s amazing how defensive people can become so quickly. He probably thought I was in it to argue, but all I really wanted was an answer. His was “because a free education is critical to a free democratic society - no other nation feels differently about this because it’s true, end of story”. I was ready to say “ok - thanks” but I asked follow-ups and things got over heated.
You know … now that I think of it, it’s possible we could end up there for child care! Big companies provide it on site at a relative bargain already. Not sure if that’s a trend or not, but … it’s not hard to imagine more and more companies providing discounted daycare as a benefit if the job market ever swings to be an employee market.
There were always some larger corporations which offered medical and/or other benefits earlier in history, but the big push for employer-subsidized health insurance came as a result of WWII. There was a federal freeze on wages, which meant companies had to get creative to offer something extra to attract the highest level of (male) job applicants. So the whole system that we now think of as normal was in fact instituted within the lifetime of our senior citizens, and was due to GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE. You’d think corporations would love to have that cost taken off their books, except that so many levels of tax and other laws have been codified to make it worth keeping at this point.
The existence of this organization backs up those Americans (typically Republicans – not my opinion) who think charitable organizations such as this one should be the ones doing this work, and NOT the government. So … the system is working. Maybe we need this organization to be better funded or expanded but the system works!
I know right? I’m going to need a full bottle before I attempt to watch this whole documentary.
In Canada we complain that glasses, dental and prescriptions aren’t covered (like they are in the UK) and then I see this and think holy shit are we ever lucky. Those (literal) poor people. Its obscene.
