Chrissie Hynde blames self for being raped

boing
142

I didn’t. Though I did address that concern on another post:

You might be conflating dealing with being victimized with keeping yourself from becoming a victim.

Telling a victim not to blame him/herself is a much better thing to do for a victim of sexual assault as it actually addresses a real world concern: What now? (And its doubleplusgood because its true!) If instead you want to tell a victim that he/she should have known better than maybe you should recognize that just because you have an opinion maybe, just maybe, it won’t actually do any good this time around.

If you instead want to tell potential victims to be careful, go right ahead, nobody’s saying you shouldn’t. Protip, suggest specific actions that you not only believe will work, but that actually have been known to work, otherwise, stick to the platitudes. Don’t be surprised people are trying to make sense of this in a different context than the one you’ve chosen to engage in, i.e. A discussion on victimization that you are envisioning as one of prevention.

Now, I’m getting a bit snarky, I apologize, its not personal, like I said I do believe you are well meaning, but you seem to be arguing against something nobody here is actually saying.

6 Likes
143

Here is something of a counterpoint to this, with Margaret Cho talking about how she was sexually abused in her childhood and teen years. She seems to place the blame right where it needs to go… good for her.

2 Likes
144

No, not full stop.

You persist in thinking that responsibility is a dichotomous thing, that either the criminal is fully responsible or the victim is, there are no other options.

That is bullshit.

The criminal is fully responsible for the crime. We can agree on that. But if you do something stupid that makes you more likely to be the victim of a crime, you are responsible for The Stupid. If you hadn’t been Stupid, no one would have been able to take advantage of your Stupid. So try not to be Stupid, recognizing that sometimes you are going to do a Stupid Thing despite your best efforts, and you are not responsible for that.

If you have unprotected sex and wake up with a lifelong companion, well, ok, whoever had the herpes should have told you but you should have used a damn condom. See what I mean about a continuum of responsibility?

1 Like
145

[quote=“tachin1, post:102, topic:64801”]
That is less blaming the victim that it is saying don’t be an idiot.

Its very easy to be an idiot in hindsight and it is in fact so hard to avoid being an idiot while human(ing?) that we don’t give a pass to con-men for taking advantage of human nature. Rapists somehow do get such a pass.

Indeed, and I think that was exactly the point I made. If you don’t be Stupid, and you get attacked anyway, that is one end of the spectrum. You are blameless, and the criminal is all to blame. If you are Stupid and you get attacked, the criminal is still fully and solely responsible for the crime, but you shouldn’t have been Stupid. You created the opportunity for you to be a victim. Don’t do that. It isn’t that hard.;

But sometimes you will indeed wander into a space that is only Stupid in retrospect. You are blameless. Nobody can be expected to predict everything, but they can be expected to twig to the fact that bike bars are dangerous places. Stay out.

Case in point:

If a man downs a bunch of Quaaludes, staggers into a biker bar, and a Hell’s Angel beats the shit out of him, that’s not rape but still he shouldn’t have done that.

But, but. Do bikers hate people on qualuudes so much that they’d beat the men and rape the women? Is that why its dumb?

Yes, in fact, they do. Remember Altamont?

Is there a list of intoxicants you should not imbibe while in the presence of Hell’s Angels?

That would be all of them. Stay the hell away. The Hell’s Angels are the West Coast Mafia.

Doesn’t she (and by extension we) know what’s going to happen to her if she goes in there? (Guess she must want it right?)

There’s where you fall off the rails. You assume that anyone who thinks you’re stupid to expose yourself to violent assault assumes that you must WANT to be subject to violent assault. That’s simply not true.

Its not that people shouldn’t do everything in their power to keep
themselves safe, its that the hidden assumption in your comment is that
an intoxicated person will do something to provoke an attack.

That is not true and is a hidden assumption on your part. Intoxication lowers inhibitions. That’s science. Lower inhibitions in an inherently dangerous place and you’re likely to get in trouble. Don’t do that.

I’m pretty sure I know what to do if I wan’t to provoke a biker into a
fight, but for the life of me, I don’t know what I’d have to do to
provoke him into raping me.

Again, not the point. Ms Hynde didn’t provoke anyone into raping her. She made herself available in an environment where rape was a lot more likely than otherwise. Don’t do that. Don’t flash a lot of cash in the hood either.

And I’ve actually been to a shady bar full
of bikers in Tijuana, being drunk next to a biker doesn’t earn you an
automatic beating you know?. Nice guys, decent music.

Probably doesn’t. The question is probability, not certainty, judgment, not guilt. Violence follows bikers like rainbows follow the rain. Court that at your own risk, but realize the risk it your own.

1 Like
146

Yeah, how Stupid of her to be born without a penis.

7 Likes
147

You’re a really great person.

5 Likes
148

Our @Falcor, who flies in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
To this thread come,
Thy conversation be done.
It sinks to earth,
Tis far from heaven.
As we give unto you your daily bread.
Please forgive us our ad-hominems,
As we forgive them that mansplain against us.
And lead us not into ban-nation,
But deliver us from victim-blaming.
For thine is the boingdom,
The power, and the glory,
For ever and ever.
Amen.

15 Likes
149

Amen. Thank you, brother @funruly.

(I’m an exmo I know how to do this.)

6 Likes
150

(What are we gonna use for the Eucharist? Ground up troll?)

3 Likes
151

You may be coming at this from a strictly moral point of view, if someone steals your wallet then later gets caught, the cops may give you some well meaning, friendly advice: Don’t flash your cash. The judge won’t fine you for being stupid as you are free to be as ostentatious as you like. (I won’t even mention that quite a bit of sexual violence goes unpunished, all these victims get is the well meaning, friendly advice, which without possibility of justice comes off a lot less well meaning)

The moral judgement that Chrissie Hynde was stupid is yours to make, but I’ve yet to be convinced. Maybe its because I don’t find it so easy to use that label as freely, after all “There but for the grace of god go I an’ shit”, If I thought I could be smarter I’d be inclined to be less charitable, but as I have proved to myself to be reliably dumb form time to time, I find it easier to understand other’s people apparent lapses in judgement as part of the human condition.

Do you believe that if Chrissie Hynde would not have been the victim then someone else wouldn’t have taken her place? Do you believe that he only ever victimized her?

Predators will hunt and sometimes it does not matter that you are stupid, just that you are convenient.

But even then holding her morally responsible for her part in this can be merely pedantic. She lived her life and got hurt, doesn’t everybody to some extent? The real moral dilemma you merely tiptoe around is this. Does she deserve it?

Edit:

NO

4 Likes
152

We call that “Sacrament” and technically any bread is ok for standing in as Christ’s flesh, and any beverage is ok for Christ’s blood. They just have to be blessed properly.

So trolley Bread is perfectly acceptable.

3 Likes
153

Troll bread and the tears of MRAs to drink? o_O

5 Likes
154

That, or a nice whisky.

4 Likes
155

Yep. Women should just shut up and not bitch when they’re raped.

6 Likes
156

Does it get transsubstantiated into the body of @falcor? Is a nice pint of beer the communion wine?

4 Likes
157

Seems to me that @Falcor is an archangel-type. Impervious to mortal concerns, doesn’t even technically have to be on the same page as the brass upstairs. But very powerful and sometimes capricious. (in a good way!)

4 Likes
158

Chaotic neutral?

4 Likes
159

Bingo.

4 Likes
160

So I guess you just waltz through neighborhoods where drug dealers hang out and expect nothing bad to happen?

I think you’re just looking for an argument. Not interested in that. Have a nice day.

161

A real “nice guy”.

3 Likes