Google's lobbyists go big on climate change denial, raise money for Inhofe & Competitive Enterprise Insitute

boing
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You follow “Spread Truth / Destroy Denial” politicians. I follow data. “Truth” is a profoundly anti-scientific religious concept, promoted by a divinity major whose is also the biggest hypocrite in human history, witnessed by a view of his mafia movie worthy ocean view palace:

Wanting to “destroy” or “kill” your debate opponent is just psycho, but here you see the actual slick haired, steak eating, jet ski equipped yacht owning Vice President promoting that very outlook.

And chenille’s take on “Cowicide”'s posting of childish video clips is that he is making a fool of me instead of himself? The psychological projection here is as thick as smog. It’s all a kind of metrosexual grandstanding bravado, but mostly just pitiable group bonding. I’ve posted an argument today that stands for itself, being the only poster who ate Grateful Dead cook leftovers from Google’s cafeteria for a year or two, sleeping with your devil, two blocks from the NASA computer office that tarnished the reputation of our alma mater. But all you see is “AstroTurf” as you argue with official data plots and old NASA veterans and claim victory for posting a cartoon or two.

Now Cowicide posts about the NSA instead of doing something about it like I did back in 1994 as the PGP interface developer -=Xenon=-, seen here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.org.eff.talk/K4_hPCdS2Ks

AstroTurf, eh? Old school cool, more like it! Always a bit ahead of the curve, calling out BS, sometimes patiently. My work helped popularize PGP enough to create awareness about the Republican congressional Clipper Chip dictate which were hardware backdoors meant to go in all personal computers! Now I’m raising awareness for another issue, merely.

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Phil “Hide The Decline” Jones of Climategate infamy is currently basking in Saudi Arabia which he now lists on his research papers:
http://mpc.kau.edu.sa/Pages-Prof-Philip-Jones.aspx

Who needs fast women when you have harems?

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Wow. I take it you felt your scattering of picked data and quotes, insistence that all other sources have been corrupted, and various remarks about pseudoscientific agendas at NASA, hipsters who hate mankind, coding PGP, drug warriors stealing houses, mafia-style mansions, interpreting debate terms as death threats, metrosexual bravado, and eating leftovers weren’t enough to establish you as the voice of reason - so you decided to throw in some racism? Wow.

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It’s a shame when scientific issues get politicized. Sure there may be debates as to the validity of a theory or idea, but it seems to me the arguing becomes disingenuous when political parties champion two different views. As seen here, both sides seem to be selective on what data they present and how, which leads me to distrust either of them.

Is there a good site where one can ask questions about climate change? I for one still have reservations about the extend of it being man made. From my interest in geology I’ve taken classes on the ice age cycle and how it helped form the earth as we know it today. (Like how this hunk of granite came to Kansas.) I know we are coming out of a little ice age, and it seems to me the planet warming up would be expected. I guess I am just not convinced that the changes seen and predicted aren’t “normal”.

I also have reservations that a lot of the data is speculative from simulations. I don’t think we know all of the forces involved in order accurately predict the future.

That said, I do support things like research into green and renewable energy. That just makes sense. I don’t like things like the carbon credit scheme. I think we should use our energies to adapt to the change, instead of trying to stop it. For example with the threat of rising sea levels. With the current levels as they are, we have evidence of settlements that are now under water. The coast line fluxes, and those who live there may at some point be forced to retreat, or engineer some grand solution to keep dry.

And as I close, I would just like to point out that in ~15,000 years from now everything north of South Dakota is going to be under a mile of ice. Buy up land near the equator, it will be worth a fortune one day.

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You know, the only paper I posted a link to was one that Nik selected, so I don’t think you’re being fair in that at all. But let me please offer an alternative: Google scholar. (Yes, I’d prefer to pick something non-Google based, but I don’t know of any equivalent yet.)

Here you can peruse all sorts of papers on the subject - at least the abstracts, but often many full articles if you try at a university. It should let you see just how much evidence there is, how plausible it is changes are natural, and even estimates of the costs of fighting vs. adapting to climate change.

It may not be a great way of making things accessible to the non-specialist, but it definitely isn’t filtering things, except a bias toward stuff that passed peer review. I think you’ll agree that’s as non-politicized as you are going to get. See what you find.

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After reading this whole exchange, I’m pretty sure a shuttle-piloting dog has better odds of happening…

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Ahem.

The Salon article cited (in very small print) by the petition states that Google, FB, and Yelp are working with ALEC to promote anti-SLAPP legislation.

Granted that ALEC does much evil – is it possible that Google et al are only working with them on this one, laudable issue? And that any funds are only spent on this issue? And if so, should they be punished for this?

My browser does not find “SLAPP” anywhere in this entire comment thread. Did no one read the article?

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@synthnseq - David Rose’s original article in The Mail contained a large number of “inaccuracies”. Hayley Dixon’s in The Telegraph deleted some of the most glaring, but a fair few remained. For accurate information about the ‘hole in the Arctic sea ice’, and hopefully a good laugh too, please see:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info

Perhaps once you’ve got some facts straight we can then deconstruct the “Global Cooling” myth?

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NikFromNYCeeeee said: …guys like Cowicide can only issue death
threats to try to intimidate skeptics.

Ha, I didn’t catch that part. Yes, Nik is right. I’m going to kill him to death with a phaser. I’m just waiting on a Star Trek phaser to be invented from a science fiction show any day now. I pre-ordered one for a mere 12.5 million dollars from 419-phasers-r-us.com.

I guess this kind of lack of critical thinking and delusional, false-persecution complex is what it takes to come up with Nik’s climate denial fantasies. Well, that and an unhealthy dose of reading libertarian “think tank” drivel after getting loaded on whiskey shots with Ayn Rand’s ghost who partakes in sips of champagne for the hallucinated occasion.

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Hmm, well. Seems Google actually did hold a fundraiser for that fugghead Inhofe, which is rather less defensible.

http://ens-newswire.com/2013/08/15/google-cuts-carbon-footprint-but-funds-climate-change-deniers/

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I’d suggest RealClimate - you won’t find many climate skeptics there, but they’re all serious researchers who’ll honestly answer your queries.

ClimateProgress (part of ThinkProgress) is decidedly leftist, but they’re a good go-to for policy issues.

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Folks, it’s not that Google is lobbying to deny climate change, it’s that Google is giving money to politicians to do what Google wants.

Did all of you miss that? This article could have been written with a focus on any number of conservative causes. Conservatives are pro-big-business in the sense that they deregulate, remove taxes, and bust unions. THAT is why Google is lobbying them

The down side for Google of course is that these groups are also anti-immigrant, anti LGBTQ rights, and pro-net regulation.

If we wanted them to stop, we could let Googles immigrant and LGBTQ employees know that their employer is funding people who want to choke back immigration and destroy civil rights.

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I disagree. You’ll never convince a troll to change but the bad information they’re spewing needs to be countered. Not to educate the troll but to educate others. There are several views I held strongly when I was younger that I now hold an opposite view because someone bothered to counter the views of those I use to believe to be true. It wasn’t an overnight thing but when there was an a constant stream of various views easily available, I was able to read them all and decide for myself. Allowing trolls to crowd out the discussion space with their rubbish means many who are silently reading only will get one side of the story. Trolls are unpleasant and quite often don’t even believe whatever it is they’re screaming but as long as they’re doing it, it’s important for their made up or cherry picked garbage be countered with well thought out and researched facts. It’s an exhausting process because making up garbage is easy while researching facts is time consuming but that doesn’t make it any less necessary.

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Has anyone posted the Vostok ice core sample data yet? You know, as in the results which show huge fluctuations in global CO2 levels AND corresponding temperature variations from 150,000 then 250,000, then 350,000 years ago. Which kind of man was resposible for those…HMMM?

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Nobody has brought them up here, but they have been mentioned on the internet many, many times. Generally they’ve been cited as good evidence for the link between carbon dioxide and temperature - just like climate scientists predicted!

On the other hand the existence of natural changes, the very largest of which are drops of about 100 ppm over the course of tens of thousands of years, does not speak much to the origin of the current rise, which is surpassing that in maybe 1-2% the time. Anyone who proposes it can be accounted for by variations as seen in Vostok is either ignorant of the vast difference in scale, or hoping their audience is.

By the way, are you going to comment on your nonsense here, or are you hoping we’ve forgotten? Because it’s only been a day.

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As seen here, both sides seem to be selective on what data they present and how, which leads me to distrust either of them.

It’s funny you should say that. I’m only selective in that I reject studies (or interpretations of studies) that have been roundly disproven as industry-sponsored half-truths that rely on selective, cherry-picked data to push an industry agenda.

You may have missed this post I made on the rise in sea levels that a ridiculous denier keeps trying to say is “lies”, etc. You know how I found those charts? I simply searched scientific charts and pulled up what most of the entire world is recording along with general, scientific consensus based upon proper research. I didn’t seek out a single website and it’s not some selective, fringe science I had to dig up just to prove my point.

On the other hand, If you want to find truly selective data, type in crazy-pants things like “sea levels hoax” and shit. There you’ll be “taught the controversy” with selective (as in cherry-picked) data, half-truths and fringe “studies” that are rejected trash. They simply lie and say they’re peer-reviewed when they’re not. There is not a single, properly widespread peer-reviewed study that rejects 97% of climate scientists. If your mission is to truly look at the science, then you can’t possibly ignore that.

I assume you’re not anti-evolution. (if you are, stop reading here, and let’s just agree to disagree, thx)

How did you come to find that evolution is valid science without removing some religion-sponsored, half-truths and fringe “studies” from your final conclusion? Do you think public schools should “teach the controversy” based upon roundly disproven myths or should we focus on actual science? There is not a single, properly widespread peer-reviewed study that rejects evolution. If your mission is to truly look at the science, then you can’t possibly ignore that.

I guess I am just not convinced that the changes seen and predicted aren’t “normal”.

You don’t have to be. It’s time you refer to true experts in their field who aren’t just studying climate science part-time, but are dedicated scientists.

97% of actual climate scientists agree (which is an incredible amount) that climate change is real and that it’s very likely due to human activities. What valid research have you done or found that rejects what the vast majority a climate scientists have determined that isn’t cherry-picked rubbish?

If you do more research you’ll find that the overwhelming majority of those that are deniers tend to be anything but climate scientists. This video below is humorous, but it represents a lot of the frustration that actual climate scientists are having with all the anti-science dolts that are rejecting their consensus for no other reason than that they’ve been “taught the controversy” by industry-sponsored, libertarian “think tanks” that have little or nothing to do with actual science and more to do with propaganda.

I commend you for taking some classes, but until you become an actual climate scientist I hope you learn that good science is also based upon being humble and listening to those who know more than you. That’s not me or anyone else, it’s the world’s climate scientists.

It’s the height of arrogance and ignorance to ignore them and think you know better without doing equally rigorious and truly peer reviewed studies to back you up. I encourage you to question any science and start your own studies to disprove them if you can, but posting conjecture that they’re wrong without backing yourself up without rigorous studies and becoming an solid, seasoned expert in the field is ignorant and disrespectful to those that do.

If you’ve got valid data that turns upside down what 97% of the world’s climate scientists are studying, then you need to come forward with that data and get it peer-reviewed by said scientists. Sorry, that’s how science works. Otherwise, you’re off to a really rough start on getting educated on climate science and climate change as it applies to our modern world with our human activities.

Powell-Science-Pie-Chart.png798×542 40.4 KB

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This term “denialist” needs to be abandoned by climate science journalists. It bears no meaning when the models are under-performing. If you are a fan of science, then you should respect somebody’s – even an organization’s – right to disagree with a model that is not working so great. If you don’t see that the models aren’t working so great, then good arguments can be made that you are not listening to the critics. Critics serve an important role in our society; there is no sense to simply ignoring them.

It’s important for people to realize that “thinking like a scientist” is no longer just a collection of methodologies and values. Ideology is now an important aspect of education. You don’t agree with climate change theory? It’s going to be a hell of a lot harder to get a PhD, to begin with. Soooooooo … What does this say about the meaning of consensus? Is consensus something that simply emerges independently in the minds of each scientist? Or, is it an artifact of the university system itself? Jeff Schmidt seems to answer this question in his important critique of our PhD system, Disciplined Minds.

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[quote=“chenille, post:78, topic:9709”]By the way, are you going to comment on your nonsense <a href=“Google’s lobbyists go big on climate change denial, raise money for Inhofe & Competitive Enterprise Insitute”>here</a>, or are you hoping we’ve forgotten? Because it’s only been a day.
[/quote]

No because my being wrong makes you look better, doesn’t it? (don’t mention it!)

But I will clarify - I don’t dispute fluctuations in: temperature; CO2 levels; ice growth and melts. These things have been happening for millenia - ergo, man cannot be responsible.

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If you think that you have used logic in the statement “These things have been happening for millenia - ergo, man cannot be responsible” then you are truly a fool. The millenias old events are coupled with massive CO2 spikes, albeit from natural occurences such as volcanic activity and perhaps asteroid strikes. No human involvement, true. The 20th and 21st centuries, however, are puncutated by massive CO2 spikes that are industry driven. See how that works? Stop being a shill. Greener polices and industries do nothing to hurt, they only benefit the planet. Not Big Oil, but then they are already in an end game, hence the ridiculous fracking we are witnessing.

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[quote=“creesto, post:82, topic:9709, full:true”]
If you think that you have used logic in the statement “These things have been happening for millenia - ergo, man cannot be responsible” then you are truly a fool. The millenias old events are coupled with massive CO2 spikes, albeit from natural occurences such as volcanic activity and perhaps asteroid strikes. No human involvement, true.[/quote]

I think you’ve just shot yourself in the foot.

As far as fracking goes, I was wondering how long it would take someone like you to raise it. Bingo!