doctorow — 2014-06-11T10:00:33-04:00 — #1
chellberty — 2014-06-11T10:29:15-04:00 — #2
by raising money to send politicians to Congress if they'll promise to get the money out of politics.
done that tried that and we got the most transparent administration ever
that aside i am for root-striking movetoamend.org .
zikzak — 2014-06-11T11:08:27-04:00 — #3
You guys, this is just...not a good idea. It's kind of exhausting to explain why, because there's so much earnest and well-intentioned naivety to overcome without seeming like a jerk. But suffice to say there's a reason why people don't use corporate-style lobbying to undercut corporate influence, and it's not because nobody ever thought of it until Lessig came along. It's because corporations are way better at lobbying than we ever can be, because they have way more money and connections than we ever will.
The political system is designed specifically to allow them to exploit their advantage (having lots of money) as much as possible, and to make political contests into financial contests. We're not going to win financial contests against corporate power. That's like, the main thing wrong with our society, remember? The 1% controls half of all the money?
The only way out is out. Get out of the political system and tear it down from outside using our own tools - the tools which are designed for us, which amplify our power effectively.
kpkpkp — 2014-06-11T11:22:19-04:00 — #4
glenblank — 2014-06-11T13:00:32-04:00 — #5
You're soaking in it.
glenblank — 2014-06-11T13:28:46-04:00 — #6
Wait, wait, wait.
You want to:
- raise campaign money
- give it to politicians
...so that they will
- make promises to "get money out of politics"
....because you're tired of politicians who
- make promises they don't keep
- they've been corrupted by the increasing flow of campaign money
Have I got that right?
Because it just seems... kind of counterintuitive, somehow.
tribune — 2014-06-11T14:26:28-04:00 — #7
have not watched the video - but that still makes me think he is hung over and doing it as a result of a bet from the previous night's indulgences.
kyle_c — 2014-06-11T15:11:59-04:00 — #8
Lessig addressed that here:
Some worry that there’s something improper about using a corrupted
system to achieve corruption reform. Don’t we dirty our hands if we use
the money of the few to achieve a democracy for the many?
I understand that concern. I don’t agree with it. One might have said it
was wrong to use the racist system of American democracy to bring about
the rights of citizenship for African-Americans. I wouldn’t have said
that. Or one might have said it was wrong to use a sexist political
system to bring about a democracy in which women have the right to vote.
I wouldn’t have said that either. In my view, we work with the
democracy we have to make a more perfect democracy. And the only way
we’ll convince America that winning is possible is if we show America
we’ve got the resources to win.
It's a gradual approach, with the main event in 2016. You don't have to be convinced we can win yet, but if the issue ends up featuring prominently in more and more elections and calls for reform start to snowball in the media, I bet you'll probably come around. (No, mainstream media sources don't cover that stuff now. If political careers are on the line, of course they will!)
edit: One other thing, I don't think it's fair to say MaydayPAC will use the money it raises for "corporate-style lobbying." There's lots of that going on, and corporations spend a lot of money to influence legislators, but they haven't actually spent much, directly or indirectly through PACs, to finance campaigns. That money has come from wealthy individuals. I agree with you that a grassroots group should never expect to win real reforms in Washington by hiring lobbyists. But we're talking about airing commercials, sending ads to people, etc. Normal campaign stuff. Just get those campaigns to be more about the problem of money in Washington.
brucebordner — 2014-06-11T17:28:47-04:00 — #9
This AntiPAC does seem silly, but it may at least it keep the danger in the public's attention. Here we have a group setting out the costs to buy a political office, and then doing it. I contributed because even if they fail, it's a great bad example.
I imagine that Lessig would love to have millions saying "This is dumb. We can't compete. The system is just too rigged..." and keep thinking about that mess. Maybe they would finally try to get some less-rigged laws, eh?
It's a long, dull, hopeless road but you have to keep hammering. I've been watching this same show since the 1950's, and progress (in freedom and opportunity) comes very slowly and vanishes quickly.
Still, we have so much more than in the 50's.... it's just so frustrating, but whattayagonnado? It's sort of a flying car situation.... you know it's stupid, but it would be so cool that we need to keep trying anyway.
doctorow — 2014-06-16T10:00:44-04:00 — #10
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