err, that is exactly what i said 
again, it was an anecdote, but dear FSM those were the words i used, and the exact meaning i was hoping to convey.
Well Iâm not doubting you when you claim that your parents are racist. They very well may be, that isnât my place to say.
The quote you provide is not racist by itself. What are they inferring about her? Nothing. In that quote they donât claim she shouldnât be a republican, and arenât stating any value judgment against her as a person because of her race. They state their own disbelief that sheâd choose to be a part of a political party that (inferred: they believe contains racists). that isnât racism, or even remotely close. if anything they are expressing disbelief in someone siding with racists, which is odd stance for people you claim are racist. While they might indeed be racist, that wasnât a racist remark and in fact contained anti-racist sentiments.
Again arguing that your parents are racists, is very different then trying to make a remark against racism an act of racism. That remark might not have been the most PC in its execution, but youâd have to be pretty darn sheltered to think that constitutes racism, and the meaning behind it was disbelief that anyone would side with racism, especially someone directly affected by it.
True, but the pre-1980 Republican party is a far cry from the current incarnation of the party. Barry Goldwater would be called a socialist by Republicans nowadays.
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I donât know what to say. If a person is x then shouldnât do y⌠what do you call it? and since this was originally a response to someone who acknowleged the pervasive racism where i live⌠how does this argument help anyone?
your quote didnât say that though did it?!?! no. it didnât.
your parents arenât claiming that black people shouldnât be allowed to vote republican, at least not based on the quote you posted. if you took the time to understand what the quote you posted is stating, it is stating their own personal disbelief that someone would choose to side with a political party they believe to be racist, especially when that person is directly affected. they are expressing anti-racist sentiment, not making a racist remark. do you understand the difference?
you keep restating the exact same argument without understanding the rebuttals to that argument or addressing the rebuttals.
it doesnât. arguing that someone who shows disbelief at someone siding with what they perceive to be a racist party is a form of racism both undermines and belittles any real discussion on actual racism. it hurts the overall discussion on racism. conflating the two things is harmful to any real discussion of the issue.
This discussion reminds me of the typical republican smoke screen. It is very similar to the claim that discussing the huge inequity/disparity between the top 0.01% and everyone else is classism, when in fact it is the exact opposite, it is addressing the very real impacts of classim that already exists on a society. Discussing the benefits that classist system has had for the few at the expense of the many is necessary to attempt to find solutions to rectify the problems, and claiming any discussion of the issue is a form of classism itself intentionally derails and is harmful to any meaningful discussion on actual classism. Likewise, conflating someone expressing clearly anti-racist remark with an act of racism has the same negative impact on any meaningful discussion. otherwise i would have let it slide without comment. racism is something i feel very very strongly about.
They exist. I realize they are the minority. Two of the more vocal people Iâve listen to are Allen West and Colion Noir. Basically they think the Democrats use them as tools, setting a system to appease the poor blacks for their vote, and in the process creating a cyclical system that âputs them in their placeâ.
Iâve talked at length to a gentleman before about gun control being an example, pushed by the Democrats, as being racist. Basically when a white Democrat says âgun controlâ they donât mean the white farmer duck hunting or the guy with the $5000 skeet gun. They mean the poor black man with a .38 in his pocket. May âsensibleâ gun laws (some of them still on the books), come directly from Jim Crow laws. For example having the Sheriff sign off on a pistol permit. That was put in place so the right people got that permit.
Others just hold more conservative values in general or think that the current culture and path we are going down isnât working and we need to change. Of course anyone making an articulate argument that goes against the status quo is instantly labeled an Uncle Tom, which doesnât help the discussion in the least.
FWIW I donât think the republican party or a majority of its members are racists. The ones I know care more about your creed than your race.
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Do you think that when white Republicans talk about making sure Americans have access to firearms theyâre thinking about arming poor black people?
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This has been my experience as well. Although there are certainly racists to be found in all parties and walks of life, and youâll certainly find more open racists in the Republican party* than in the Democratic party, the most flagrantly outspoken intolerance in conservative groups tends to come from religious bigots, and those people typically welcome all races and skin colors as long as they show an extravagant reverence for Jesus above all other loyalties.
The actions of elected officials in the USA are often racist in action, although almost never openly racist in intent. Usually they are classist, and for historical reasons WASPy people dominate the uppermost classes, and people of color are overrepresented in the lowest, so classist policies end up looking pretty racist on the ground. Sometimes people exploit that, as in the Ferguson situation, in order to keep class solidarity from bridging racial fault lines.
*Where I live, anyway, to the east of the Mason-Dixon line.
The fact they arenât putting restrictions in place means, yeah, if you arenât a felon and can legally own a gun, go for it. There is no âbutsâ. There is no scheme in place to make sure the ârightâ people get them.
Any rational person will argue that poor blacks are probably the #1 demographic who NEEDS something for protection as the black on black murder rate is much higher than any other demographic. But even with that, it is the small minority involved in gangs and crime causing the violence, with most people just trying to get by with life.
Kind of a narrow-minded jerk move to assume the average white gun owner is a racist in my book. But hey, itâs easier to judge people on stereotypes, right? If that was the case they wouldnât have gone after Heller vs DC, where half the population is black. Or McDonald vs Chicago, where it was a poor black man who wanted a gun to protect himself. Colion Noir is the NRAs most interesting spokesperson in a long time. But yes, letâs marginalize and reduce 100 million people in America down to just one hive mind. Works for every other group out there, right?
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Those organizations have spoken on this kind of appropriation and they pretty much all agree that itâs racism and doesnât âhonorâ them.
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Your comment is disingenuous. Conservatives have supported racism the most. The old Dixiecrats were conservatives, and when Northern Democrats started supporting civil rights the South slowly turned Republican. You knew that though didnât you? Mentioning political parties is meaningless. You might as well say that the people who fought (and died) for civil rights were conservatives and Southern white supremacists were progressives. Funny how this âRepublicans freed the slavesâ canard gets trotted out over and over again⌠Those Democrats would probably feel most comfortable around neoconfederate libertarian types today.
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Iâm not sure how âwidely acceptedâ it is, but Lady and the Tramp is actually a pretty racist movie, not just the stereotypical Italian humans speaking âwhatsa matta youâ Italian, but also the dogs themselves. The pound scene in particular is full of racial stereotypes, all of whom are judged to be deserving of imprisonment, unlike the clearly white, upper-class âladyâ whoâs âtoo good for this place.â The others are basically sentenced to death, and we arenât supposed to really have a second thought about it. I canât say much for âFrog Princeâ but assume that itâs quite a bit updated from the Lady and the Tramp mode, and actually seems to contain well-dimensioned characters who happen to be black in a specific context. If anything this post just shows that people of all kinds can be portrayed honestly and sensitively, if you try.
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Masterfully subverted. [citizenkaneclap.gif]
Aristocats!
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Although you are fundamentally correct in your statement that âConservatives have supported racism the mostâ, I canât say I care for the way you used that as a rhetorical springboard to make insinuations of deceitfulness against me, and ended up by calling a documented historical fact a âcanardâ.
@chgoliz & @Donald_Petersen have already said all that was needed. If youâre going to keep claiming that âthe Republicans freed the slavesâ is a canard, it would be best to split off a new topic and I can demolish your arguments there. It is not appropriate to this thread, and I wonât reply to it any more here.
âDemolish argumentsâ
How have you done that? Your âhistorical factâ was irrelevant to the conversation or point you were trying to make. It is indeed a tired, oft repeated way to try to derail discussions on racism.
How is old Clayton Bigsby doing these days?
Yeah, the situation isnât so black and white.
They NRA also had black citizens setting up chapters in the south to oppose Jim Crow gun laws in the 60s. The NRA originally supported the National Firearms Act in the 30s and the Gun Control Act of 1968. There was a change in paradigm in 1977 when the hardline rights activists took over the leadership. Before hand it had focused more on hunting and sports shooting,
Even with their support of the 68 law, which was in partial response the rise and crime and violence of minorities in inner cities, I think one would be hard pressed to pin the NRAâs policies as racists. Certainly not since they switched focus to the hardline rights stance.
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