Provocative, friendly thread on EVIL

Studies have shown that using conservative styled language to “inoculate” your audience so they’ll accept leftist ideals is actually counter productive. They, instead, hew closer to conservative ideas when you do that (e.g. not only is there no value in calling undocumented workers “illegal immigrants,” it actually encourages people to take even harsher stances on undocumented workers). I believe this holds true in a larger sense.

I’m not sure I understand your point in regards to how that relates to my post (or strategies) specifically, but I’d like you to further explain it to me because it sounds interesting and it may be something I very well need to utilize.

As I have Vued before, centrism has cost the Dems more ground than it has ever won them.

I agree. I think if Obama had stuck to at least trying for things he promised before he was elected, the Democratic party would have a much stronger, more supportive base right now. Instead, there’s quite a lot of disillusionment with Obama and his party from the left.

Obama ran on a fairly left-wing platform (by Democrat standards, anyway) on some issues and that’s what people voted for. Despite the tremendous amount of Republican filibusters, we still can’t put all of the blame on Republican obstructionism. There were things that Obama should and could have stood for at least on principle that he far too easily caved on or didn’t even try.

Status quo, bluedog Democrats and DINOs love it when they can both appease their corporatist right masters and pander to their constituents at the same time by being in a position to lamely blame Republicans for their actions and inactions.

Though, to be honest, I shouldn’t have this argument with you. You’re a fully convinced Democrat and I’m a fully convinced Socialist.

I’m not surprised you may think I’m a Democrat if you haven’t read my previous posts on this topic in other threads and I apologize for not being more clear within this one. The “corporatist right” I mentioned in my reply to you consists of most Democrats (with very few exceptions) and all Republicans (with no exceptions).

I’m not a “fully convinced” anything as my positions are subject to change as new, valid information is brought to me. I’m also not a Democrat. I’m far too socialist to be a filthy Democrat. :smiley: I would be absolutely thrilled to see someone like Bernie Sanders beat the pantsuits off Hillary Clinton for the presidency, for example.

I’m talking about long-term strategies. The point of my post is hacking the current power structure to make it possible to usher in third parties in the future.

I’d love to see something like a socialist third party or candidate put into place within the USA, but we must clear, overcome, side-step, mitigate and prevent obstacles (see Advantages of the corporatist right) to make that an attainable, realistic possibility.

Ushering in more Republicans that have rampant district gerrymandering, voter suppression and voter disenfranchisement down to a science won’t pave the way for third party penetration – it’ll put up nothing but more insurmountable road blocks. Among other reasons (gay rights, women’s rights, a bit less warhawkey overall, etc.) that’s why I want Democrats in power instead of Republicans. With Democrats there’s a crack in the door for third party penetration down the road – with Republicans that door is nailed shut.

The realities (I listed in ‘Advantages of the corporatist right’) aren’t insurmountable in the long term, but they are very real obstacles that any leftist third party (socialist or otherwise) will have to address now before any practical, successful attack upon the current power structure can be made in the future.

We need to attack the weakest links within the corporatist right and that weakest link is currently the Democrats. Democrats are the youngest, weakest wildebeest within our political Serengeti and that’s who we take down first. Otherwise, we keep entrenching and strengthening the current corporatist power structure by falling for false equivalence and ushering in more Republicans.

Sun Tzu’s The Art of War strongly emphasizes the use of flanking, although it does not advocate completely surrounding the enemy force as this may induce the enemy force to fight with greater ferocity.

If you haven’t recently read The Art of War, I strongly suggest it. The PDF links are within my first reply to you at the bottom of my post.

If you know of a better, faster strategy to overcome the corporatist right and/or disagree with some or all of the details within my list of advantages of the corporatist right, I’d sincerely like to discuss them with you. I’m always looking for suggestions for a better way.

The most we can hope to agree on for this subject between the two of us is that the Republican party is terrible and that $15/hr is an improvement.

I hope this post dissuaded you of that. :slight_smile:

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