I didn't vote for 'em


#1

Just cause you didn't vote for him doesn't mean you're not responsible. We're all responsible, as a country. That's what it means to live in a democracy. "We the people" have the power and we can't just blame the current guy in charge.


Some historical context for America's next bombing campaign
Some historical context for America's next bombing campaign
MoveOn tells Sanders to move on
#2

Do define for me what "the power" I have is.


#3

No we don't every 4 years we elect someone and they do whatever the fuck they want. They just give us the illusion that we have any say or control over this crap.


#4

Out of curiosity, did you vote for someone who you think would have been less likely to bomb another country during his or her Presidency?


#5

That's often the case in the UK too (except maybe for the "4 years" bit) but this week Parliament actually took public opposition seriously and shot down the Prime Minister's plan to bomb Syria. There's no reason the same thing couldn't happen in the U.S. if public pressure was strong enough. Civic participation isn't limited to throwing a vote one way or another every four years.


#6

That's so incredibly wrong - no voter is responsible for the actions of the elected official. And if you really think we have the power to decide which puppet to put in the POTUS office, you're fooling yourself... by the time the two candidates reach the finals, they have been carefully vetted by the ruling elite and are a sure bet to continue on the policies that are currently in place.


#7

Go back to high school and learn about basic civics. I'm sorry you feel dis-empowered, but you can't just wash your hands of the whole matter just because you disagree.


#8

I didn't vote republican, if that's what you're getting at.


#9

No, I'm trying to determine whether you vote at all. I'm inherently skeptical of idealists who equate non-participation in the political process with "taking a principled stand."

(Or for that matter, any "principled stand" that happens to coincide with the path of greatest personal convenience.)


#10

Civic participation isn't limited to throwing a vote one way or another every four years.

Agreed, and also being wishy-washy sure as hell hasn't helped anything else, either.

Ping-pong, anyone?


#11

no voter is responsible for the actions of the elected official

If the voters aren't taking action, or are falling like suckers for false equivalency and aren't doing everything in their power to fix things with civic participation... then they are responsible. I feel responsible and so should every other American or nothing will ever progress. That's how a functioning democracy gets functioning. It'll all on us as citizens to make the change we want.

I think the alternative is defeatism and nihilistic naysaying. We've had enough of that in America and it's led us to where we are today.


#12

Basic civics. Best Ad Hominim attack ever.


#13

I didn't vote republican, if that's what you're getting at.

If you didn't vote at all or threw away your vote on someone you knew couldn't win, it's one in the same. When Democratic candidates see weak support for them (even when they win) they shift more and more to the right. That's how we've gotten to this point where so many Democrats are right-wing conservatives, that it's become the norm. And, that's the fault of the American public who doesn’t consistently support the lesser evil and pushes them increasingly to the right.


#14

No we don't every 4 years we elect someone and they do whatever the fuck they want. They just give us the illusion that we have any say or control over this crap.

You're a part of the problem if you think they are all exactly the same. They're not and voting does make a difference if we'd only consistently use that power instead of being defeatist and wishy-washy. It'll take (literally) decades of voting in lesser evil because so many Americans haven't remained steadfast and we've thrown ourselves radically backwards with two, greater evil GW Bush administrations with a bloody rubber stamp congress in tow for most of it.

Embracing false equivalency got us to this horrible point, not being pro-active en masse and pushing our candidates to the left consistently for decades. The American public failed. The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one in the first place.


#15

Do define for me what "the power" I have is.

Voting consistently with others in the same direction for decades and using your civic responsibility to take action beyond voting. Americans being wishy-washy all these decades and throwing away votes obviously doesn't cut it.


#16

It's not my job to explain the ethical justification of democracy to someone who clearly didn't learn it when they should've.


#17

Cool! So if you never vote at all, nothing is ever your fault! That way, you can feel good as your country goes to hell. But don't let your lack of participation stop you from criticizing absolutely everything you see. What America needs most is political opinions from people who can't even bother to vote!


#18

Except America is not a democracy.

It's not even a so-called representative democracy. It has a corrupt electoral system, first past the post, gerrymandering in the house, unequal apportionment in the senate, and the electoral college. It doesn't even have the voting rights act any more. If I wasn't a pacifist, then I still wouldn't be able to vote, because I'm trans and have documentation problems and an attorney general who thinks we're abominations.


#19

I admit ignorance on this topic. Are there laws on the books that make it more difficult for trans citizens to vote, or are you unable to vote because trans people have more difficulty attaining citizenship?


#20

If I wasn't a pacifist, then I still wouldn't be able to vote

Why would you want to vote if you don't believe you're in a representative democracy anyway?

Except America is not a democracy. It's not even a so-called representative democracy.

It's not a perfect example of one... but it is, indeed, a flawed (like they all are) representative democracy. The American public didn't support left-wing Democrats enough for decades, so both Democratic and Republican representatives went increasingly to the right as a response. If you don't show support and vote for the lesser evil (when you can) or throw away your vote, then you only have yourself to blame for where we are today. We all share in the blame for not doing enough and that includes me as well...