Provocative, friendly thread on EVIL


#1

The @awjt made me do it!

Reference: Supreme Court rules corporations can cite religion to avoid contraception coverage


Supreme Court rules corporations can cite religion to avoid contraception coverage
#2

Do I understand correctly that at least one aspect of the discussion here would be about whether 'tis better to not vote at all than to choose the lesser of two evils?

I don’t want to intrude if that is not at least part of what’s on the table here.


#3

I am legally obligated by a secret NSA letter to include the following into this discussion.

on-topic:

What’s the harm, I sez.

Vote for Nader, I sez.

2 years later, wardrums for IRAQ.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccckk!


#4

Now I don’t even know what to say. Errrrhhhhh uhhhhhh. Urhhhh.


#5

Do I understand correctly that at least one aspect of the discussion here would be about whether 'tis better to not vote at all than to choose the lesser of two evils?

I think that sounds like it. @awjt, would you agree with that to some extent?


#6

Yes, or alternatives to voting or not voting. Or the conditions under which not voting is ok, to staunch lesser-evilists. Or expositions on the impartiality of voting vs sacredness. Or if velveeta is the same substance as cheez wiz with different packaging.


#7

CTHULHU FOR PRESIDENT

I see your Cthulhu for president and raise you:

Son of a bitch. I’m at a tremendous disadvantage here. All my likes got used up in previous threads and won’t be at my disposal for ~4 hours, so I’m going to have to actually respond to posts and tell people why I like them. That’s a lot of work. I didn’t sign up for this kind of effort! :wink:

What’s the harm, I sez.

Vote for Nader, I sez.

2 years later, wardrums for IRAQ.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccckk!

My feelings exactly. Of course, Nader is great on many levels and there’s arguments to be made that Gore perhaps wouldn’t have won anyway, but let’s face it, the votes that went to Nader and the general distraction his run created didn’t help Gore’s chances and Bush was an unmitigated disaster for a host of reasons.


#8

Errrrhhhhh uhhhhhh. Urhhhh.

You’re sounding very presidential already!


#9

I admit to considering myself an “issues voter.” Defined by myself as attending to the issues that I think are most in-play for any given election, and voting for the candidate that I think can most-benefit the causes I think are most in play (sometimes I view “most-benefit” as “least harm”).

Obama has been shit on habeas corpus, NSA, warrantless, etc. But he’s been decent on advancing rights for GLB (if not TQ) and passable on healthcare.

My ideal next candidate would look promising to keep the pace on GLBTQ, step up healthcare reform, and begin to swing the pendulum back to civil rights and away from NSA/DOD/CIA/etc.

In that sense, I can see myself sometimes supporting the lesser evil (Kerry, gah), or sometimes going the protest vote route (Nader, gah).


#10

I want to get in on this argument but I can’t figure out what the topic is about. Anyone care to bring me up to speed? (I read this thread and tried to read back on that thread and mostly I’m just seeing some meme photos.)


#11

Then you’re perfectly up to thread speed.


#12

This’ll clear it up :


#13

There’s no point at all in choosing the lesser of two evils. We must choose the greatest of all evils. Which may or may not be Cthulhu.

Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn.


#14

I’ve often wondered if a +/- voting system could work. You have one vote, FOR or AGAINST any one candidate. You subtract the against votes from the for votes for each candidate and then compare results. If every candidate has a negative total, there are a couple possibilities. You could select the least negative candidate or you don’t fill the office at all.


#15

People have proposed various forms of Proportional Representation as a possible solution to electoral problems. It has a nice sort of intuitive appeal to it… but then you consider that all the racists and fascists and anti-vaxers all get proportional representation too you start to question the whole thing.

I know there are a few different kinds of PR and I sort of waded through the PR articles on Wikipedia and thought about the statistics a bit but I don’t really have an intuitive grasp of the pros and cons.


#16

Approval Voting, that’s called.

Vote for anyone that’s acceptable. It’s a system I like that leads to the consensus candidate winning. You can vote for the third party candidate you like without compromising your vote against the Evil.


#17

EVIL is a passing fad. Real photographers use DSLRs with optical viewfinders.


#18

You know what would fix all this shit, permanently? Not voting on a frickin TUESDAY that ISN’T A NATIONAL HOLIDAY.

(If this were the corrupt-a-wish thread, the response would be: “Granted. You now vote very early on Thursday from from 12:45 am to 1:15 am.”)


#19

Thursday?

You must be British :slight_smile:

I remember one European election where only postal voting was allowed. That was fucking stupid.


#20

So, here’s a real world example, from my own personal experience.

2008 presidential campaign. Obama vs. McCain.

McCain’s campaign kept using the word “maverick” (or was that just Sarah Palin?) but I was never convinced that McCain would be anything but Bush the third. Also Palin.

Obama, on the other hand was exciting. I kept telling myself “He’s a successful politician, so believe only one word in ten.” But even with that handicap, I had some hope. The audacity!

So, I voted for Obama.

But wait, you say. Obama won in 2008.

That’s right dear friends, but my vote had fuck all to do with it.

I live in the reddest of the red states. Half of the Republican voters could have skipped voting and it would still have been a horse race.

So, my vote meant nothing. It didn’t send a message, at least not to anyone who cared.

Skip forward four years. Now it’s Obama v. Romney. I was deeply, thoroughly disappointed with Obama. I wanted very much to vote against him, but the only other candidate on the ballot was Romney and… No, just no.

See, another thing about my little slice of Happy Mutant land is that we have here some of the most restrictive ballot access laws in the US.

So, even knowing my vote wouldn’t change the fact that the state would swing wildly republican, I had nobody else to vote for besides Romney.

So I didn’t vote.

It very much feels like “damned if I do and damned if I don’t.”

So, I sincerely solicit input. Even if it’s “you dumb fuck, why didn’t you [fill in the blank]” sort of feedback.