25 Invisible Benefits of Gaming While Male

boing
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It’s a dangerous word to use in a conversation because it’s so powerful. If you suggest someone else is privileged, without carefully introducing the subject, they’ll almost always shut down and get defensive. You see it all the time. “I’m not privileged; I’m unemployed right now!”, that kind of thing. You end up wasting a ton of time just unpacking that, explaining “intersectionality”, all that crap, when they’re already on the defensive and not really listening anyway.

On the other hand it’s a powerful word to educate yourself. Like, I can acknowledge that I have a crapload of privilege and that’s useful to me cause it forces me to analyse why I think certain things, why I might sometimes come across as hella patronising when talking to women even though I try not to.

You gotta be careful. Sometimes people need that prod, when they’re receptive but complacent. Like when someone accused me of mansplaining. “splutter But but but I’m not!! But but! Damn! You’re right!” If they hadn’t already known I cared, I would’ve just told them to fuck off and got out of the conversation.

Edit: I should add–everyone’s different. Some people really love the cut and thrust of a passionate debate and want to you go in guns blazing. I guess I can appreciate that but it never looks like anyone learns anything except maybe how to hone their debate skills… which to me seems like a very frustrating kind of mutual masturbation. Trying to understand each other seems infinitely more productive.

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This is interesting from the point of view of effective agitation. I’ve seen informative articles and videos about privilege on gaming sites for a while now (five years, at the very least), but I’m not sure how good they are at changing minds.

As in, I haven’t seen a lot of change within the gaming community. Although, Gamergate seems to be/have been big enough that developers, at least, are now moving in the right direction. Maybe it’s a process that’s been gradually happening all along.

Regarding the video, I think there should be more emphasis on calling out bad behavior within the group. I am under the impression that people care more about the opinions of their peers than those of random strangers.

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Yeah, this. See, I’d always thought of racism and sexism (and other issues) as “this is something asshats do,” which is, to a certain extent true, but it’s only part of the story. I knew racism was unfair, but it didn’t occur to me very much that the system itself was unfair, that past injustices weren’t something that people just needed to “get over” but were still having effects on them today. I maybe had an inkling starting to develop of it before, with knowledge that people have subconscious biases that falls short of overt racism, but when I heard the P-word (and got past my initial defensiveness and realized what exactly they were saying), it really crystalized things. It’s not just that people of other races, sexes, etc were being hurt by asshats today (but if we removed said asshats from the equation, everything would be cool), but that the asshats of the past have put me in a privileged position compared to these people. And I can either acknowledge that and consciously work harder to counteract that (which includes educating others), or I can ignore it and then become (or rather continue to be) part of the problem.

I’m part of enough problems already, I want to mitigate them where I can.

So I have a few qualms about the term, but I think on the whole it’s done more good than harm. And I think the defensiveness reaction of “well, these aren’t privileges, these are rights everyone should have” is PART of the self-education process. Because, yes, they are. Yet they don’t.

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Definitely. I’m actually quite optimistic though, as I see it gradually happening. A lot of developers and game journos have been speaking up about it and it’s encouraging gaming communities to tighten up their policies.

You mention Gamergate, but I think the original Feminist Frequency kickstarter and, more importantly, the reaction to that, is probably what brought this subject to everyone’s attention. Before that, “ignore it and it’ll go away” was the prevalent attitude.

If anything, GG is a reaction to what they see as a tiny minority of voices hijacking the gaming media to keep talking about it.

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You’re right. I have varying opinions about the videos themselves, but the reaction to Anita Sarkeesian’s work was nothing short of pathological. It’s kind of hard to pretend the community is healthy, when the problem is out in the open.

On a side note, I don’t see any particular problem with referring to the concept as “privilege”. It’s the idea behind word that is controversial, not the word itself. Those who don’t accept the idea will always try to discredit any term anyone comes up with.

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It’s funny how whenever Sarkeesian’s work comes up, it’s like a ritual, one has to say “I don’t agree with everything but…” I keep doing it too! What the hell! They’re opinion, they’re feminist analysis, you’re not supposed to agree with everything. I’m going to stop doing it.

Words are the embodiment of ideas. Words have power. I don’t think you can say something is just a word.

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Yes, I fully agree. Or at least, mostly. I am not sure :smile:
It actually seems to me that the same can be said for many words that are offensive, exaggerated, or both.

The word “asshole” is a dangerous word to use in a conversation because it’s so powerful. If you suggest someone else is an asshole, they’ll almost always shut down and get defensive.
On the other hand it’s a powerful word to educate yourself.
It’s a good thing to stop now and then and ask yourself “Am I being an asshole right now?”.
If a good friend tells me “Stop. You’re being an asshole”, I will stop and think about it, because I know that my friend would never call me an asshole unless they had a very good reason. If someone who is not my friend tells me the same thing, I will be insulted and won’t give it a second thought, because I think people who call other people “assholes” generally don’t have opinions worth listening to.

There is nothing wrong with using a well-placed little insult or even just a logically incorrect exaggeration to give someone a much-needed prod.
But when those insults get promoted to the status of “official terminology”, and the exaggerations get promoted to Facts That Must Not Be Doubted (or you’re part of the problem), then… well… I don’t like it. Can’t really do anything about it, because abandoning the Cause of Justice and Equality for All because I don’t like the way some people do discussions is not an option.

Basically, people are saying something not because it is a good argument, but because it is wrong and potentially offensive to some people, and by articulating a response people will stumble on important truths that they might not otherwise have noticed?
Well, it “might do more good than harm”, or it might not, but either way, it’s not really a pleasant way to have a discussion.

Note that it’s near impossible to distinguish “part of the self-education process” from “articulation of insights from a long-completed part of the self-education process”. Basically, my reaction will be the same when I first hear the term “privilege”, no matter whether I am just realizing the “yes, they are. Yet they don’t” thing, or if I have known for a long time.

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In the past, I’ve argued against the overextension of the concept of privilege, but I was pedantic, and perhaps just plain wrong.

One of the key things to understand is that racism is a systemic problem. There are, of course, people who are self-consciously racist, but they’re only the leading edge of the problem. Talking about privilege is a way to get at the systemic nature of the problem.

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Touché.

That is precisely why they have power. Changing the word “privilege” to the word “doorknob” doesn’t mean much if they both refer to the same idea. There is a certain historical momentum behind one but language mutates, while the idea is immutable.

Anyway, I figure people can call it whatever they want, as long as it’s convincing to them. Maybe an individual approach is best.

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I see what you’re saying, but asshole, as an insult, doesn’t have any deeper meaning beyond that. Whereas privilege does–It’s just a concept that has to be introduced carefully. I don’t think it’s reached the point where it’s just an insult!

It’s not like we have a better word! I guess we could talk about having an advantage thanks to structural prejudice but ultimately you get the same problem. It’s the underlying concept that people are reacting to, after all–the idea that thanks to current and historical social structures, you have a better deal than others. A lot of people simply don’t see it that way.

Yeah. Anyway, in general it’s more useful to talk about specific advantages, benefits, leg-ups, entitlements, one might have compared to others. Talking about the overall concept ends up just being word games anyway.

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Is it? I thought I was objecting to the word, not the idea.

At least, I was assured that the idea was not to assign some guilt about enjoying unfair privileges that can and should be taken away from the privileged group. To me, that is what the use of the word implies, and that is what I am objecting to.

I have already understood that this is not the idea, but I think people are often tempted to choose terms that slightly overshoot the target in order to get more effect, in order to be more provocative. And I reserve the right to dislike that while still accepting the idea itself.

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I don’t think “privilege” has reached the point where it’s just an insult either; I think that’s where it started out from. By introducing additional definitions, you can change the meaning of the word by making it a technical term that is not necessarily insulting. If I start to define “asshole” as “someone who acts to the detriment of others without any good reason beyond selfishness” and then use “asshole” only where that is appropriate, then it, too, gains additional meaning and more value for thinking critically about my own bad behavior. But I will freely admit that the word “asshole” started out as a much worse insult and is still a less well-developed concept.

Okay, so the common thread here is that the emphasis is put on the “privileged group”, not on the victims. You seem to be deliberately not saying “their rights are trampled upon”, “they are disadvantaged”, you’re saying “you are privileged”, “you have advantages”, which are logically absolutely equivalent.

This shift in focus can be valuable because it symbolically puts the privileged person in a position where they can act - basically by reformulating Somebody Else’s Problem as Your Problem.
So maybe “privilege” is the best term to convey that. And the negative connotations it has can maybe prod some people out of inaction.
But I still think that choosing one of several logically equivalent formulations for their connotations which are explicitly “not meant by it” is somehow intellectually dishonest and manipulative. Well-crafted manipulation for a good cause. I can see the genius of it, and I actually wish it to succeed, but I can’t bring myself to like it.

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I don’t think it’s dishonest to point out, look, you might not yourself be actively sexist, but you gain an advantage because others like you are.

Maybe it’s valuable because it shifts the discussion away from the victims? Is it more instructive to say “I’m more likely to get a job in my industry because it’s male dominated and I’m a man,” than “She is less likely to get a job in my industry because it’s male dominated and she’s a woman” It’s easy to think of a counterexample–I work with a woman, there are simply less qualified women, something.

I guess that’s an instructive example of privilege specifically because of the Rolodex Effect. Even if every single actor is acting in a completely neutral way, men still benefit implicitly because of the network effects.

Passive voice vs active voice. I can’t do anything about imaginary sexists but I can do something about myself. Maybe?

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I have experienced most of this as a gay black man. these are the reasons why i hate social gaming to date.
If my blackness isn’t called into question my sexuality is always next because i don’t have the most masculine of voices.
I never play with the voice chat because most gamers will never know the sheer rage of being called a ngger and a fggot repeatedly.
or simply NOT being able to darken the skin color of a character to make it more appealing to my senses and sensibilities.
or worst of all to me. being bombarded with the breasts and butts of hypersexualized female characters
look at skyrim for example. WHY DO FEMALE LIZARDS HAVE BREASTS? Someone needs to make a move.

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Holy Christ, do you not get it. I was (somewhat rhetorically) asking if these cheesy, touchy-feely videos are necessary. I wasn’t asking if videos defending the basic right of women to be treated decently are necessary.

Why poke fun at it? Personally, I can’t stand these dumbed-down, super corny, somewhat goodie-goodie PSAs, which is why I posted other dumbed-down, super corny, somewhat goodie-goodie PSAs as examples. I believe the word is… schmaltzy?

When I was a kid, my friends and I would have excoriated this kind of thing. It seems pretty heart-felt, but since when did telling a bully that they’re hurting your feelings ever help?

So why poke fun at it? Because I’m questioning the both the effectiveness and basic worth of this video.

PS: Since you liked it so much last time… ZING!

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Slightly OT, but #crimingwhilewhite is worth a look on Twitter.

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When people are splitting hairs over whether the word ‘privilege’ is too insulting for actual privileged people (p.s. I am such a person myself), it distracts from caring about the actual problem that is being discussed.

I never seem to hear an alternative idea instead of the word privilege. I suspect it is because people are not really offended and made uncomfortable by the word itself but at the very notion that they benefit from advantages that others are denied for reasons other than merit. In my experience, people who balk at the word simply don’t want to have the conversation altogether (otherwise they wouldn’t try to derail it over semantics).

And if you want to win the argument, hey, here it is: You Win. I don’t personally care. I just think it would be refreshing to hear privileged people saying hey, you know what, we are pretty freaking lucky and it sucks that it’s not equal or fair for everyone instead of feeling sorry for themselves over a simple word…

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No, I don’t consider that dishonest either. Apparently the “intellectually dishonest argument” thing didn’t come out right.

To me, an intellectually honest argument is an argument that makes its point explicitly, directly, and logically. It’s supposed to be about logical arguments about how things are, not about presenting things in the right way or subtly shifting the discussion to the right subject in order to influence me towards coming to the right conclusion.

Sure, it works to use those tactics to convince people. “Effective agitation”, as @WalterPlinge called it earlier. The problem is, you can convince people of everything. Even of factually wrong or immoral things. You cannot do that with intellectually honest and logically sound arguments. Because you can double-check the logic if you are in doubt. And I’d rather “honestly” convince someone that he is wrong than “trick” him into being right.

When other people are insulted by the style of the discussion before they have learnt to care about the actual problem of the discussion, that, too distracts from caring about the actual problem. So I thought this was worth splitting some hairs over. And as someone was willing to take me up on it, I don’t feel to bad about it.

I thought I had agreed to that right at the start when I got involved. But just in case: we are pretty freaking lucky and it sucks that it’s not equal or fair for everyone. And even though it’s not always fair for me, it sucks that it’s worse for others.

This is something that bothers me about the boingboing forums on topics related to discrimination - most everyone agrees on the main points, but if someone claims that inappropriate/unsound/wrong arguments are being used to further those main points that have already been shown to be true, it’s “trying to derail it over semantics” and they are suspected of disagreeing with those main points. That way, sloppy reasoning could grow unchecked.

P.S.: I think there is a rule somewhere that says that as soon as someone says “You Win, I don’t care”, both participants have lost the argument at the same time. If this rule doesn’t exist, I want it to be named Zathras’ Law.

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I pretty much agree with you, except that I’d draw more distinction between convincing someone and convincing someone to listen. The first is obviously harder, and comes from a deeper understanding and–like you say–hard facts, but the second is hard too and is a much more emotional problem. I think you’re a little quick to dismiss persuasion as intellectually dishonest, when it’s vital to having the discussion in the first place.

The problem with arguments over argumentation style is that they have a habit of rapidly taking over threads. In that sense, it totally is derailing. It tends to silence people with personal experience but who don’t have good debate skills, over people who are good at “winning” debates.

I am totally on board with this. :slight_smile:

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Speaking of actually discussing the topic at hand… how did it unfold for the rest of you guys? I don’t think I took much persuading cause I have sisters and I could see first hand how I had it easier, just the sheer amount of shit they had to put up with in comparison. But it was being yelled at by an angry feminist (thank you angry feminist, whoever you were) that made me actually educate myself and put a word to it.

How about you guys? Was it gentle persuasion, polite discussion, furious argument that got you thinking about it?

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