I think the jury is still out on whether Nobby is an ex-Londoner ex-Muscovite of West Indian descent living in NYC, or a Russian 'bot. Nobby, care to weigh in?
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Why is anyone surprised? The Democratic Party has been moving steadily to the Right for at least thirty, arguably fifty years. On every significant policy point Reagan would represent the center-left of the Dems. Nixon would be unacceptably Liberal, and Eisenhower would be “Loony Left” by the DNC’s standards.
“Arguably fifty years”? So what you’re saying is that the last time the Democratic party really represented what you think it should represent was, what, when it got us embroiled in Vietnam and a quarter of the party were still Dixiecrats? Or maybe you really meant 30 years ago, when the Democrats lost three straight presidential elections, 489-44, 525-13, and 426-111 before they went all “triangulate-y” and “center-y” and “new-democrat-y”?
I do not respond to threats, but rest assured that it has been noted. Brownshirt tactics are not limited to the right.
I do not respond to threats but rest assured it has been noted.
Threats like “if you don’t vote for my candidate no matter how bad they are, the other guy will win”? I don’t respond to those either.
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That is a problem is with right, not the left. In a two party system, you must resign oneself to the fact that, unless you believe in single party rule, the opposition is frequently going to be in power.
If the United States can only survive by having the Democrats in power perpetually, you’ve already lost. The best you can hope for is a decade or two before power corrupts and it becomes worse than the opposition and there is no force for good at all.
As for the fascists finally coming to power now, I’d argue that we’re all wooed by the power of symbols, and the power of the symbol of President Obama was immense.
But Obama presidency masked the fact that the Republicans have been gaining power in everything but the presidency for many years. It meant that change could only be enacted by executive power, with the consequence that every change could be undone at the whim of the next president.
Moreover, when people were unhappy with the government (and they inevitably are), they’ll blame the party of the president, regardless of where the real power lies, which merely tilted power even further to the right.
Trump’s win was such a symbolic blow because it indicated that people wanted change no matter how loathsome the vehicle for it. But in terms of power, it was only the capstone of a decade or two of increasing Republican legislative power in both State and Federal houses.
And that had little to do with the disunity of the left. At best, it might have staved it off for another few years, with the Democrats losing even more power.
My hope is that US can begin its inevitable swing back, now that not only have the Republicans captured the presidency, they’ve done it with a uniquely awful figure.
But to my original point - these swings are going to happen. The only hope for a country is that must be able to swing back no matter what the voters elect. Once it loses that, it’s only marking time before its inevitable doom. Democracy means the bad guys will often be in power and nothing can avoid that.
And to my mind, the US is a long way from that. Trump and the Republicans will cause a lot of ill. But the pendulum will swing back. And at each swing, it will be further left than it was before.
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I’m sorry, if you cannot see the difference between “vote for Hillary or Trump will be our president” (this is a fact, not a threat) and “if you say something I do not agree with I will kick your goddamn teeth in” (this is the very definition of a threat) there is little hope for you.
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Regarding US military recruitment, I found this very interesting:
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No i don’t qualify.
I would note that the policies and political philosophy I’m suggesting is a return to the Dem party of FDR. Is it really so much to ask the party of the left to be even comparable to leftist policies of that era?
I know a little history too.
US workers fought really hard for the right to unionize. Many of those leading that fight died but they did win in the end. Workers in steel plants had to fight Pinkerton’s armed with guns. Much of those gains are being lost now, and younger people face an increasingly fraught future, with houses too expensive to buy, non-existent pensions, and limited worker protections. The Democratic party of the 1930s brought the New Deal. What has the Clinton Democratic Party brought its working class supporters other than NAFTA?
Its not enough to tell me that if we dont vote Dem we will face a worse beating and Nazis may come. Why do voters need a Dem party which takes money from corporate sponsors who hope to gain influence over the party? What point is a Dem party which exists for the benefit of its professional classes. Why be surprised that the white working class has defected to Trump when the Dems refuse to represent their interests.
If you dont want Republicans then cater to the base. Republicans do. Dont just offer corporate America baubles, offer ordinary people real policies with real benefits to them. And stick your politics of fear where the sun dont shine.
And no I do not consider myself economically vulnerable, but neither am I immune to what is likely to come next. I just wont eat what they are serving me. Feel free to vote for them. But if they have lost me then they have lost a lot of people and I cant for the life of me understand why the Democratic party elites refuse to notice and do something about it. Probably because noticing would be bad for their incomes.
Im being a little unfair - some of them have. That scumbag Cuomo has put free tuition for State schools into his platform. And a whole bunch of up and coming Dems have put Medicare for all in their programs. So why even pretend that these policies are vote losers. They aint and a lot of people know it. Even the white working class know whats in their own interest. Anyway, I have intervened too much in this debate, cos I feel a little too passionate about it. I just think its about time for the Dems to recognize that Trump is a Dem-inflicted injury, not something imposed on America by the Russians. Yeah, the Dems didnt lose by a Mondale or Dukakis margin. But they did lose to a halfwit liar who assaults women - cos at least he pretended to care about a lot of potential Dem voters more than the Dem candidate.
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Would that she had listened to people on the ground and committed the resources in those states for that historic win.
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Pretty significant change you made there, you shouldn’t use quote marks when you are misquoting someone.
I want to fly to the moon on gossamer wings, I want to have ten million dollars, I want Mike Pence to spontaneously dissolve into a puff of phosgene gas, but my wants are not statements of either reality or intent. People don’t do everything they want to, nor do they get everything they want. Wanting something is not making a threat.
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Oh, there’s absolutely a huge difference.
One is expressing anger over having one’s vote thrown away by people who then expect sympathy and unconditional support when they perceive the same thing happening to them.
The other is deciding that someone is so desperate and afraid of something that you can force them to agree to anything, no matter how damaging and unwelcome.
We have a name for that where I’m from, and it’s not generally one that comes with the moral high ground.
Sigh. You guys go play in your fantasy world while we try to fix the real one. If you require perfect compliance with your ideals to support those who would oppose the current oncoming fascism, you be you. But for those who live and work in the real world, we need to play by the rules as they are. Would I like them to be changed? Absolutely. Problem is, if we do not regain control there will never be that change. Demonize your allies all you want, but don’t then be amazed that we are now in a “Nazis are very fine people” administration. (Aware that is not the exact quote, if you want to nitpick, but you get the idea.)
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And we have one for this. One who makes a choice leading to an absolutely predictable consequence, who then refuses to accept responsibility for that outcome. I do not think anyone is expecting sympathy from you, we do expect actions. Sitting home and then griping about the outcome is not acceptable. Nor is utter rejection of an opinion which differs from one’s own. That is what makes for extremism. Not a very productive position if you actually want to achieve viable results. I have to ask, are you happier with Trump than you would have been with Clinton? If you are, then your actions were correct. If not, they were not. Not a Clinton supporter myself, my thought at the poll was I may not want to vote for her, but I will damn sure vote against him.
OK, how about this.
We will support your third way liberal candidate if it comes to that, but our support will come with a cost. If they look like they are ignoring the marginalised again (their reforms tend to be aimed at the safely middle class, with a “promise” that those rights will trickle down) we will protest like it is Trump back in power.
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No thanks, you seem to have that covered!
Once Trump is stopped, that’s fine. I am tired of hearing about how we need to stop centrist Democrats as though that is the problem when right wing extremists are targeting people of color, LGBT, the environment, the constitution, and the list could go on. Why are progressives turning their fire on allies while the true enemy of our democratic system is palling around with dictators and cutting the throat of every gain made in the last decade? We took a senate seat in Alabama with a candidate you would probably oppose, and a house seat in PA likewise. In large swaths of the country where Bernie level progressives will not win, if a Manchin dem will win, I will take that. Is it perfect? no. Is it real life? Yes, and Trump and his ilk must be stopped.
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Wow… Project much?
Because waiting for the Third Way liberals to do the right thing is like a never ending performance of Waiting for Godot. Things may change, some positive, some negative, but what we are waiting for never arrives.
Maybe I would be less harsh if I was playing life on easy mode, but I am a disabled trans woman on a very limited income, and have been for most of the last 20 years. Saying that some Democrats are shit in these areas is an insult to shit politicians. The Third Way has failed marginalised people, and they are still failing us by refusing to listen to us.
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https://twitter.com/some_qualia/status/965345168512733184
Look at the top left, those are the people who lost Hillary the presidential election. The election was lost on economic issues, not social issues. Bernie wanted to campaign on left wing economic issues, Hillary campaigned on social issues (which in my opinion she was not strong on) and lost to the orange gobshite.
My political beliefs would put me in the bottom left corner, so it’s not like I’m asking for ideologicial purity on this.
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