After Roy Moore threatens to sue AL.com, the publisher puts him on notice to preserve all documents for their countersuit

No, sorry, that’s just garbage.

The bar for libel is the same for everybody, no matter how famous or infamous the person you are defaming. You don’t get to make false claims that harm somebody’s reputation just because they’re famous. Libel isn’t journalism, and we are not discussing libel.

Neither, in the case of Hogan or Thiel, are we talking about the reporting of information vital for public good and health of a democratic society. We are talking about the invasion of privacy and deliberate revelation to the public of facts that are none of the public’s concern, and which do not improve our society for their having been revealed.

Perhaps I’m misinterpreting, but you seem to be suggesting that fame negates – or at least severely restricts (“very high bar”) any right to privacy. So let’s nail down how “public” you think a “public figure” has to be before they no longer have that right.

Question One: How famous do you think, for example, an actor needs to be before it’s ok for “journalists” to release nude pictures of that person?

a) Zero. Anybody should be able to publicly release nude pictures of anybody, because freedom of speech.
b) It’s ok if they starred as an extra in one production.
c) …they starred in a supporting or lead role in one production.
d) …they starred in a supporting or lead role at least five productions, or have won at least one major award.
e) …they’ve won multiple awards for their work, or their movies always make, like at least $100M.
f) They are, like, Tom Hanks or Meryl Streep.
g) There is no level of fame that gives anybody the right to publicly release nude photos of a person.

Question Two: If you answered Question One with anything other that “g”, how do you justify that answer rather than those below it, and how are you not an asshole?

Public figures have the right to private lives, and that bar is the same as it is for any non-public figure. If the details of your private life do not impact the public sphere, they are not the public’s concern, and the public has no right to know about them. It doesn’t matter how famous you are, or what party you vote for, or whether you are, in fact (like Thiel), a repugnant excuse for a human being. If the details of their private lives do not impact the public sphere, everybody’s private life gets to be private.

Really? I would suggest that we have seen a greater impact from a wider array of more insightful investigative journalism in the last 18 months than at any time since Watergate, and certainly of a quality and scope and effectiveness not seen since before 9/11. But if you can offer convincing statistical evidence of a “chilling effect” on “journalism everywhere” that began in March 2016, I’d like to see that.

If Gawker had been engaged in genuine journalism, journalism that served the public good by providing it with information necessary for the betterment of society as a whole, journalism that made any effort to live up to the responsibilities of a free press or to offer the true societal benefits of free press, then that would be a relevant insight. But this isn’t the Pentagon Papers, and he didn’t sue the Washington Post. The free press has not been silenced. This is sex tapes. Free press doesn’t have the right to release sex tapes. Society isn’t helped by vile and harmful invasions of privacy. Like I said, the problem isn’t that a billionaire used his billions to hold Gawker to account; the problem is that nobody else could.

Comparing Thiel’s financing of Hogan’s suit against Gawker to Moore suing AL is an absurd false equivalence. The most compelling evidence for that claim is that Hogan won his suit, and Moore will not.

See, that’s the thing. You and I don’t get to decide what “genuine journalism” is. This isn’t a bad thing.

Well, shit, let’s shut down Fox News, Breitbart, TMZ, People, every lifestyle magazine, every tech blog, and gaming web site if that’s what it takes to be considered “genuine journalism”.

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I agree. It’s my understanding most state bars will disbar you if you file lawsuits w/o merit. (There was a lawyer featured here on Boing Boing who eventually lost the right to file suits unless another attorney signed off on them)

Many states also have anti-SLAPP laws, and I’d love to see a strong federal one:

What I meant more is that if someone is accused of a criminal offense, never charged or convicted, is then stripped of their legal license, that could play out poorly.

Generally the way it’s handled is the bar handles ethics, and criminal matters are handled by the courts - and after conviction the bar suspends your ability to practice if the conviction is severe enough.

Edit: I have to apologize - I clicked on an earlier article by mistake when drafting my initial reply. SLAPP lawsuits are bad and I hope the Alabama bar vigorously investigates this ethics issue.

I’m sorry you have such strong feelings and I hope you’ll continue posting.

It’s a little frustrating that twice now you’ve assumed malice on my posts.

To be honest, I misclicked and read the article on one of the old Roy Moore posts. I thought we were saying he should be disbarred based on the accusations, and was cautioning there should probably be a trial.

Yes, absolutely the Alabama bar should discipline him for meritless filings.

If they don’t actually go on to sue then the letter is pretty much meaningless. This letter basically reads, “You tried to threaten us. We are not scared to go in front of a court and argue the validity of our reporting. Given what you did, we think you probably are scared of that.” There will be no law suit so ultimately this letter won’t mean more than Moore’s threat. They just aren’t giving the bully the last word.

I’m confused about this. He deserves a trial before disbarment if he is accused of molesting 14-year-old girls using the his power as a lawyer but not if he is accused of filing vexatious lawsuits?

Why would there be a higher standard of proof to disbar someone for one rather than the other?

Generally there are two ways to be disbarred

  1. Commit an ethics violation and be disbarred after a hearing before the bar
  2. Commit a crime and be convicted of said crime

There’s not really a precedent for disbarring someone for a criminal offense prior to a conviction. Otherwise, it would be super easy to charge someone you don’t like with a crime to keep them from practicing law.

In this situation it sucks, but I could totally see some vexious DA going after an ACLU attorney.

Does that make sense?

It’s my understanding Gawker chose to leak Hulk Hogan’s sex tape thinking he did not have the money to take them to court for this. They even willfully disobeyed a court order regarding their publishing of the tape.

Later, they found out they’d pissed off someone with a lot of money who was willing to support a fellow victim.

While Peter Thiel is a bad person, at the end of the day if you don’t want to have your journalistic enterprise shut down, it’s a good idea to rely on following the law rather than your assuming your victims don’t have enough money to fight back.

(Hulk Hogan is rich, but not “drop 2 million on legal fees” rich)

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I’m not saying Gawker is without fault here, they deserved to be sued and I’m not lamenting that they lost.

I’m saying that silencing a free press with power and deep pockets because has a chilling effect.

I also feel the punishment here was outrageous and set a dangerous precedent.

Using his power as DA to coerce women into dating him was an ethical violation worthy of disbarment. The standard for disbarment doesn’t become higher because some of it was also criminal. The bar association would conduct it’s own investigation with its own standard of proof and makes a determination based on that. There is no need to wait for a trial.

As for it being “easy” for a DA to create false charges, I don’t think the rules of conduct for a bar association are going to be written under the assumption that the legal system is corrupt. That would be a pretty weird stance for the body overseeing the state’s lawyers to take.

He wasn’t a very good judge, or even an honest one. So he probably doesn’t.

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Ok, yeah, I agree.

I thought we were saying if someone is accused of statutory rape, they should be disbarred w/o waiting for a trial.

When we frame it in the context of an existing ethical rule (not just “doing crimes is bad”), that doesn’t make me nervous at all.

I guess I’m not understanding… do you think if Gawker hadn’t disobeyed a judge Thiel could have still chilled their speech?

What I’m saying is that Gawker was wrong and they brought much of this on themselves with their hubris and arrogance. They should have done the right thing and taken down the post pending litigation, but they decided to choose this hill to die on. I don’t have a problem with this – Gawker deserved to get sued, and they deserved to lose in court.

The problem I have is with the unconscionable penalties levied Gawker that forced them out of business. This was beyond the pale, and is unlikely to have happened without Thiel’s deep pockets and his expensive legal team.

It’s also important to note that Thiel wasn’t injecting himself into this case out of some deep altruistic motive to help a fellow wronged celebrity, he did it because he hated Gawker and figured this would be a good way to put them out of business. A very Trumpian thing to do.

You don’t need to look far to see how the precedent this lawsuit set is hurting the media.

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