Practically, legal solicitors are much more likely to meet you at your door than barristers who are more likely to bump into you in the courtroom. That said, bewigged men knocking on your door should not necessarily be avoided.
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And it was the Mormon church that joined with Catholics in pushing Proposition H8 in California, that denied same-sex couples the right to marry. Good riddance to this religion and its awful influence.
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Seriously? The BSA opens to people the LDS church persecute prompting the LDS to leave the BSA, and you manage to interpret that as infringing on anyone’s freedom of religion or association? That’s…a creative interpretation of the First Amendment you have there.
Mormons are people like anyone else, capable of good and evil. Criticizing the LDS church is not the same as impugning the decency of all Mormons.
Wouldn’t their willingness to allow only closet atheists contradict their emphasis on honesty and integrity?
There you go spoiling reactionary ideology with empirical evidence. /s
People who insist on stoking moral panic rarely care how reality works, else they wouldn’t be doing it.
Scouting is a global phenomenon, with its founder’s early support of fascism not being omnipresent throughout the movement. Scouts have also been the victims of racism…
A Boy Scout’s Good Deed, Thwarted By Racism:
On the contrary, you said…
Now if you’d like to walk that back, go right ahead. But don’t pretend you didn’t say what you said. You say you’re a lawyer? I’d think that moving the goalposts is frowned upon in courts of law.
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Although a former scout and adult scout leader, scouting is extremely problematic for me now-- over and above Baden Powell’s flirtations with Nazis. In the U.S. it is too bound up with churches. I doubt the Mormons are even close to the most deranged church sponsoring BSA units. There is a promotion of patriotism in BSA which at one time I found amusing and quaint, but now it leaves me alarmed and disturbed. Maybe it’s because in my dotage I’m becoming increasingly crotchety and leftist, but the cultic gestures, flag waving, rank progression, and uniform and manifesto fetishes are just not endearing, or even acceptable, to me anymore. There must be a better way for children to learn outdoor skills and humane behavior.
Having said all that, I don’t want argue with anyone about their respect for or participation in the organization. I know there’s good there. I just can’t tolerate the bad anymore.
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That’s certainly fair. I wouldn’t choose to put kids in it unless they really wanted to, and my sister’s kids, while extremely outdoorsy, are fortunate to have better options for learning the good things scouting has to offer. I just meant that the scouting movement as a whole has a lot to offer that can be carried into more inclusive organizations, whereas the LDS church seems intent on carrying them into organizations that embody their reactionary prejudices.
Personally, I have no problem with flags or patriotism as long as symbols don’t replace what they stand for and the patriotism isn’t blind allegiance to nationalism (as it all too often is). Baden Powell’s idea of patriotism seems to have centered on Imperialism. But an emphasis on responsible citizenship and civic duty needn’t be discarded along with jingoism.
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It’d be different from this universe, where the Scientologists are co-opting the Nation of Islam.
The Scientologists have a couple Boy Scout troops, which are actually auxiliaries for their Sea Organization with the Billion Year contract.
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They should change their name to The Boy, oh, Boy, Scouts!
We’re all members, actually, but just don’t want to think about it much.
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Three words: Mountain Meadows Massacre
And True Mormons, who warned the Commie-Pinko Mormons years ago that letting Negroes into the BSA would be just the beginning of a long, slow, slide into Satanism have, of course, been vindicated.
Oh they still try to dance around that topic, and especially everything that went on under good ol’ Brigham during the first few decades in Utah
The events surrounding the death of Joseph Smith is also something else.
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I was a scoutmaster in an LDS unit for over 20 years. I think the major reason for the change has very little to do with the BSA position on gays or girls. The LDS church has more youth in countries that are not served by the BSA. As the church becomes more and more an international church I believe the leaders are very cognizant of the need to treat all youth equally. The cost of supporting a scouting program is significant. They want a program that can be used in any country. And treat all young people anywhere they may live equally.
I may be ignorant of these sorts of things, but if what you say is true, why recreate an organization for themselves, when they could easily add support to the existing structure to accommodate their Mormon youth? I’m sure it is expensive to support a scouting program, however, some of that price has already been spent by the current BSA. It would be cheaper to simply add to existing rather than pay to bring in a new administration and start over.
And welcome to the BB board.
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The BSA is only available in certain countries. The parting is gradual and will not take effect for another year and a half. I am sure the church wants a program that will be able to include young men and young women globally not in just countries where the BSA is active. A new program will not be separate from the church but will certainly be led by volunteer church members. A new program can be directed towards of the needs of LDS youth in any country where they live. The BSA is a wonderful organization. I think the inclusion of young women in scouting is a good idea. Anyone who has worked with the BSA will always appreciate the influence of scouting on the lives of young men and now young women.
In theory the Boys Brigade is supposed to be non-denominational Christian, but that would still be a problem for Jewish boys.
I remember going on a school visit to a Jewish museum in Manchester, they had an old uniform for the Jewish Lad’s Brigade which was very similar to the BBs uniform.
A lot of these groups were founded by military officers. Maybe the Boys Life Brigade wasn’t, as they were supposed to be pacifists, but they merged with the BB in the 1920s. Somehow the Scouts were still the less militaristic of the two.
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So, you’re saying the Mormon church wants to exert more control over the scouting program and expand its reach beyond what the current BSA can do. Correct?
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