In the vast majority of cases when civil society fails to stop mass atrocities, international intervention fails, too. In fact, I would say that, in practice, international intervention is used far more often to cause atrocities than to prevent them.
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OK, how do you reconcile the reality of around 30,000 gun deaths a year in the US vs. your entirely theoretical “untraceable Guns are needed to fight a tyrannical US government” argument?
While the 3D technology is interesting, as is the CNC machining, the stated goals of printing untraceable guns don’t seem to bear up in actual practice.
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The Bosniaks did not have weapons because the west had an embargo, where as the Serbs had taken over the JNA. And that was much more of a proper war, compared to this, with an invasion and uprising to stop Bosnia from leaving Yugoslavia. The UN fucked up the peace keeping mission, thanks in part to Mitterand’s intervention largely on behalf of Karadzic. If the UN had actually gone in and used force (the force of an actually military) to STOP the ethnic cleansing in the first place, the outcome might have been different. Srebrenica happened INSIDE a UN safe zone, because it was not demilitarized. The Serb militia was able to waltz in kill 8000 people, and then leave unmolested, because there was no serious attempt to disarm militias within the safe zone.
How are you going to defend yourself with a home made gun against a tank?
I tend not to live my life assuming that everyone is out to get me.
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I think the folks responding to IvanTT can do better… I don’t see him addressing gun availability in the USA, but I see this:
“Political Interest:… I realize that bad people can use guns to do awful things - but if you look at the scoreboard, governments preying on targeted groups and individuals are the worst villains to face mankind, and when mankind is prepared to defend itself, villains have a much harder time carrying out their goals.”
I totally disagree with much of what @Ivanthetroll says. I’ve seen the additive effects of “everday” gun violence in the US, and it destroys communities, not just lives of those who get shot, and the numbers of lives made worse by guns here is well beyond the count of the dead
- but his point seems to be the ease of manufacture, not the untracability. And I’m not sure that 3D printing a gun is currently easier than just buying one IN THE USA. Since our gun laws don’t even seem to keep 13 year olds from getting AR15s (cf today’s LA Times front page article), knowing how to buy and use a 3D printer to make one seems a lot of extra work.
Can someone explain to me how having a serial number on a gun makes it somehow a safer gun?
(under the current US laws that don’t require registration of guns)
In my view,
this nails the argument that here in the US we can use guns to defend ourselves if your government ‘comes after us.’ Even the local police have amored vehicles (though I once saw a Swat guy accidentally get locked IN his armored vehicle, which was damn funny). If the real army came after you, an AK won’t do much against a Predator.
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A vast majority 2/3 of those deaths are suicide - while suicide is a serious matter and not something to brush aside, suicide happens regardless - guns are used in roughly 1/3 of suicides. Many more suicides occur without guns.
Now, to address how I feel my work fits into that picture - I don’t believe people who are in distress are going to take 20+ hours to make a gun with a 3D printer to off themselves in a moment of crisis. Sure, they may already have printed a gun - but in the US you can attain guns easier than printing them. Black powder firearms, such as the revolver linked earlier in this thread, are a perfect example of far easier methods of attaining a weapon capable of killing yourself. So I don’t see 3D printed guns contributing to the suicide crisis our country faces for those reasons.
Now, as for the remaining 1/3 of gun deaths (homicides), 3D printed guns don’t have a measurable impact - they have been possible for nearly 10 years now, affordable for 6 - yet not a single documented use in crime. Nobody has ever even been harmed by one - so to suggest that the violent felons (who make up half of gun murders) are going to print a gun when this country is awash in simpler options is naive. It simply isn’t a good option for criminals in the US because guns are already easy as pie to get ahold of.
Now, as far as “untraceable” guns vs govt - the Kurds are probably the best example of how civilian owned firearms serve as a deterrent to government gone awry. It’s no secret that world stability is in a weird place right now, what with protests worldwide. It’s additionally no secret that governments can turn against innocents at the drop of a hat - we see it in HK, Syria, Ukraine, etc. While the relative chance a government does commit acts on par with China, Syria, or Russia is quite low, having the option to resist government aggression is imperative for those facing government aggression.
As for the merits of homemade firearms holding up to their promise - the IRA used homemade RPGs to deter British armor. The Kurds use AKs made in the Khyber pass. HK protestors are building armories of guns they have produced, though their culture predisposes them to use lethal force as a last resort.
From a US civilian perspective it might not seem like expedient weapons make a difference - but talk to some people with firsthand experience and they will tell you otherwise.
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Your argument is that legal guns kill far far more people, so you handing out plans to kill people is much, much less than that.
You admitted to directly helping with that.
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My interest is in manufacture moreso than nuanced methods attaining guns.
Of course there are eaiser ways to get guns in the US than make them - kids find them in trashcans, they get stolen from unsuspecting owners, etc.
My interest in manufacturing goes beyond the US - it’s frankly not much of a challenge to make guns in the US because of how the Federal control scheme works.
The thought is that guns with serials can be traced back to the person who owns it by using the NICS system to find the gun’s first point of sale and tracing it from owner to owner (if it is was sold 3rd party at some point). Gun tracing involves far more than this basic serial number search - casings can be traced, as can bullets, gunpowder burns, and crime scene stuff like ejection patterns.
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I’m handing out plans to make guns, not to kill people.
One is legally protected speech, the other is terrorism.
Yeah, some HK guys asked for info on making guns. I’m sympathetic to their cause and offered them my expertise.
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Legal in the countries you’re supplying them?
Sounds like you’re supplying aid and comfort, without regard to international law or treaty.
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You say that as if there’s such a thing as “society”. Libertarians have known that’s not true for years, thanks to Baroness Maggie.
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The Kurds?
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If you gave this to them because you thought they might use them - your motivation wasn’t academic. They’re not going to show pictures of the weapons to fight oppression.
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Knowledge is power, in this case, knowledge can give you the power to free yourself from an extremely authoritarian, oppressive, and violent government. A people with no power have no real rights. A people with no rights are slaves. Free Hong Kong.
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It’s your choice - but weapons technology transfer to non-state actors is somewhat frowned upon by both national and international law.
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The people of HK are the ones with the knowledge of their situation. They are protesting the erosion of the government they have, and doing it in more sophisticated ways than bang bang shoot shoot, which would give Beijing the opportunity to come in and destroy HK’s special status.
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This conversation has veered from ”inform” to ”encourage violence”, which we do not do here.
