Yep. This is why things like the Death Penalty, 3rd Strike Laws, and laws in general don’t do much to deter crime.
4 Likes
I’m still not sure of the full story of how this guy got on this spot on the cliff. He’s referred to as a hiker–not a climber–who is cliffed out. He didn’t seem to be injured, so he didn’t fall. The suggestion seems to be that he tried climbing down (shortcut?) and couldn’t go further. But the space above seems way to hairy for him to have come down. So was he scaling up from the snow?
Some S&R places will send you a bill, but last I heard, Snohomish County S&R doesn’t out of concern that it’ll lead people to delay calling or take unnecessary risks rather than face a large bill for calling for help. There’s actually some concern about funding for them this year, given the loss of the federal timber tax money that was being used to fund them.
2 Likes
Apparently I’ve been hiking incorrectly all of these years, dammit. Never been in a hairy spot like this. Guess I need to take “hiking” off my online dating profile.
1 Like
If this logic worked our prisons would be empty and no one would smoke.
2 Likes
If the camelbak had been clipped to his harness as soon as the rescuer got to him and kept it clipped until they were both safely in the helicopter it wouldn’t leave the environmental disaster of that human-made detritus on the cliffband.
1 Like
One question: I was expecting that after being clipped in, the two guys would just be lowered gently to the ground, rather than reeled back up to the helicopter. It looked rather flat and safe nearby.
In my totally amateur opinion, there would seem to be some additional risk in the act of getting back into a hovering helicopter. Of course, there’s also a risk of them getting bumped about if they’re lowered to the ground.
Is it standard procedure in a situation like this to “bring them up” rather than “let them down” after the rescue?
Is it standard procedure in a situation like this to “bring them up” rather than “let them down” after the rescue?
Between the remote location and the possibility of slamming people into the ground if the helicopter’s altitude suddenly changed bringing the person aboard is safer. It’s also where all the medical equipment is in case your hiker stranded on a cliff has suffered from exposure or any other number of possible problems.
2 Likes
You know how much this stuff costs the taxpayers? Pretty damned near $0.00.
The helicopter pilot needs his hours in the air to stay current. Any time that he spends doing an extraction simply is time he isn’t spending on a training flight. (Likewise for the fuel.)
Almost everywhere, the searchers are volunteers. I know, I used to volunteer for S&R myself, in a pretty wild part of New England. They’d actually canvass the local hiking clubs for searchers sometimes - because that was a way to get people who were equipped, and more important, knew the country! If there’s an old person or a kid who’s wandered off, it can sometimes take a lot of searchers working a grid pattern to find them. Particularly if the kid has been so reared on ‘stranger danger’ that he hides from rescue (more common than not, nowadays!).
And when I did search, who paid for my gear? Me. Who paid for tuition and supplies for my (required) training? Me again. Who paid for the gas in my car to get me to the scene? That’s right, me. What did I get out of it, other than the nice feeling when the call comes through that the subject is found? Maybe a cup of bad coffee or a sandwich at a ranger station, if there was a huge team called out and someone happened to think to call the Red Cross for support. Oh yeah, and I was covered by the state for liability when I was actually on a callout, so the subject would have to sue them first. (And even that agreement had in the fine print that the state could subrogate to me - it was there to give the plaintiff an opportunity to recover after bankrupting me.)
And yet people gleefully want the subject to reimburse the state for what, exactly? For all the money that they’re not paying the S&R people? If I found out that the state was charging for my efforts, I’d have really been tempted to quit. I’d have been that angry.
7 Likes
It’s a tough balancing act. The ability to call in a helicopter by radio in Chamonix France has been blamed for people getting in over their heads as some view it as easy backup insurance. i.e. “If I wind up in a pinch, I can just call in the copter.”
Over the last several years as Personal Locator Beacons have become common SAR teams in the US have found themselves responding to some ludicrous situations as well, wasting money and putting themselves at risk.
I think there should be an adequate safety net for all, but sometimes easy rescue does contribute to people making poor decisions, and in those cases I have no issue with the rescued being fined. I make no judgement on this hiker turned scrambler as I don’t have the details. Glad he made it down okay.
2 Likes
That scrambling route - to the eye of a hiker who is used to scrambles - doesn’t actually look that bad. He did kind of box himself in, but a hiking partner - he had one, who went for help, right? - ought to have been able to coach him out of it. Even if the partner was above him, there was room to pass on that ledge he was on.
Yes, “not that bad” in this case means, “the rock is sound, the routefinding is easy, the holds are plentiful, there is abundant natural protection, but the exposures are dramatic, and less confident members of the party may appreciate the use of a rope.” Even here in the East, hikers routinely scramble stuff like this (note that she’s hanging onto tree roots, not ropes!).
or this lovely vertical chimney where I had to haul my pack after me because it didn’t fit in there with me.
1 Like
[quote=“David_Aubke, post:15, topic:36504, full:true”]
How does one become “cliffed out”?[/quote]
Have a housemate whose only album is I’m Nearly Famous.
5 Likes
I’ll stick to boring flat earth. Maybe the occasional stairs if there is a hand rail.
I worked SAR too, and I completely agree.
1 Like
Suit yourself. The views from the top of those peaks are breathtaking, and the scrambling is fun.
The safety record is pretty good. I do hear of the occasional hiker taking a fall - even a fatal one. In an overwhelming proportion of cases, alcohol is involved, and in virtually all the rest, someone had a sudden medical problem such as a heart attack. I don’t drink and hike, and well, I think that by getting out and hiking, I may actually be postponing the day when I keel over and die of something.
1 Like
Thanks for that info. I thought I saw “sheriff” on the side of the helicopter, and assumed that meant it was the sheriff’s department heading the rescue.
1 Like
Yup, a friend of mine is on Sno HRT, too - He wasn’t in on this extraction. And yes, this and many other SAR organizations are manned by volunteers and partially or fully funded on donations. And for every high angle-extraction like this one, there are many more searches by these organizations for lost hikers, wandering kids, lost and mentally compromised elderly, etc. So it’s certainly not all out in the cliffs and woods - they play a significant role in protecting the entire community. Feel free to donate to your local SAR organization(s) accordingly.
Could have just flung his bag out onto the snow, clear of the bergschrund, so it would have been easier to retrieve.
3 Likes
Yeah… seriously dude!
STOP MESSING WITH NATURAL SELECTION DAMMIT!
I take risks. A lot. I’ve never put myself in a position where I had to call rescue guys*. I’ve snowboarded backcountry Whistler. This is fucking pathetic and he’s a stupid fuck for climbing somewhere that he was unsure whether he would be able or not (alone, no less).
The only type of rescue that jacks me up even more than climbers who are out of their depth is rescues of rich idiotic fucks who go yacht racing during a storm.
*We did once call for help - though it was hardly life threatening. We had ridden out of bounds at a Japanese ski resort so by the time we hiked back to the lifts the resort was well and truly closed (and we were on the side of the mountain that had no hotels or public road access). We had gained access to the gondola base station which was heated and included shops and a restaurant. Bacon thawing on the industrial kitchen counter and an unlocked drinks storage room. After a short discussion we decided it would be better to call someone to come get us and take us back to our nice hotel rather than camp there overnight and get drunk on “liberated” beers.
