America is starting to realize that "liberal/conservative" labels exclude the left

Literally semantics: The article.

Fixed that for you.

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Since the Tories and Labour both seem to have a problem with forming a coalition with SNP or Plaid Cymru, I would see those as spoiled votes too :smiley:

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Interestingly, there is a narrative in the conservative branches of the conservative party and media here which highlights that the populist right-wing arseholes are increasingly popular because the traditional party lines are more blurred today. They accuse the (ruling) conservative party that by appropriating “lingual” views, they are driving true conservatives to embrace neo-fascists (my word, not theirs) like the AfD.

Funny enough, the AfD in particular came from a “liberal” (i.e. economically neo-liberal) background, and closed ranks with everyone who wanted to get the Deutsche Mark back.

Well. Liberal. …

[insert you-keep-using-that-word.gif]

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In my personal observation, my right wing friends tend to do a better job of putting “politics” in a compartment which is only one part of “real life” than my left wing friends do. But it’s certainly not binary, there are exceptions on both sides.

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Alas, PR was specifically removed from the referendum for Tory advantage, instead we got a binary ‘choice’ of the very worst possible voting system (FPTP) and the second-worst voting system (AV). As a result (and by design), AV was incredibly hard to campaign in favour of, because it was so flawed.

IMHO this was the biggest failing of the Lib Dems here in the UK, Up until then, i’d been voting for them 50/50 for voting system change and the ‘least-worst’ party of significant size in the UK…
Had they got PR on the referendum, which they could easily have forced by threatening to withdraw propping up the Tories, i might have forgiven the rest of their disastrous actions.

As it stands though, their greatest accomplishment in recent political history is destroying voting reform in the UK for a generation. They, like the Tory party, will never ever get my vote again.

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Instead we have strong and stable government :smiley:

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Best i don’t reply to that statement seriously :wink:

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I have. It didn’t. Actual testing shows there’s a psychological effect from using a nicer glass. And little else. No channelling of aroma. No benefits to particular varietals from different glasses. Try a nice riesling from a riesling glass then a chardonnay glass. But do it blindfolded, and have another person hold the glass for you. Do that 50 times. See how how often you rate the riesling glass higher or can even identify it.

More over I’ve never met a wine maker who when in private drinks their wine out of anything besides coffee mugs and small water glasses.

The fall of eagle’s thing was more because the review contains a run down on the origins of conservative/liberal dichotomy and the roots of the liberal era. Like it or not The US/generel definition is the original, academic, and political science definition. The more specific politicized and regional ones are the newer addition.

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What do you suggest doing in those seats where Labour don’t have a hope of winning and only the Lib Dems/SNP/PC have a realistic chance of keeping the Conservatives out?

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I am not qualified to comment on the shapes of wineglasses, but a good nosing glass really does make a huge difference with whiskeys, mezcals, and other alcohols with intense aromas.

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Christ, the last thing the US left needs is to replicate the division you see in the UK. And don’t hold Corbyn as the Last Hope Of the Left, Hillary’s democrats were far better at appealing to the working class than Corbyn’s labour.

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I diagnose US internet lefties trying to claim ‘liberal’ as a perjorative label as a foolhardy attempt to get in with the alt-right crowd and re-use their ‘libtard’ jokes, pretending that those people mean the same thing when they talk about taking down the establishment and helping real americans against elites. It’s a delusion.

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and an annoying one. Paul Krugman still calls himself a liberal.

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The left have become the social conservatives and the right have become the economic liberals.
Seeing politics as a polarised spectrum is and will always be backwards. Nothing is more tragic than the race to the political margins that is the current situation.

Both sides loathing the other and being in total denial of their own glaring hypocrisies.(for example the right and climate change and the left and free market benefits)
Corbyn and Sanders will no more save us than Trump and Brexit will!
If you believe in democracy you believe in the politics or swings and roundabouts.
But if we cant debate ideas because everyone thinks their position is the only one then were all fucked!

Not always. Race and gender issues exist outside of class relations or maybe better put, they form their own kind of class. You don’t fix racism or sexism when you level class, I’m afraid. Upper class women are still discriminated against in the work place and POC experience racism no matter their class (though in both cases, there is much more insulation against sexism and racism - but it’s still there, despite the wealth).

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I agree. Kind of the point I was making. There are multiple layers of shit that we have to deal with, and they intersect at points, but you do have to deal with these issues on their own merits. Fixing one will not fix another.

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But given that if you don’t have a party which wins a majority, the major parties have to make alliances with the minority parties, yeah? At least that means sometimes those smaller parties can get a voice, unlike here, where the 3rd parties have no voice whatsoever in national politics. You have to be absorbed into the mainstream parties to change them at all.

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That would be the same Jeremy Corbyn who got the most Labour votes and the highest share of the national vote since Tony Blair’s landslide in 1997?

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