Given its history since 1918, right up to the current days of Davos meetings, I can assure you that those who call themselves Swiss do consider themselves a modern nation-state that adheres to standards – for the most part correctly. That’s what makes this policy so bizarre and embarrassing.
3 Likes
If you think racism died with the Nazis in Germany, I have some bad news for you.
Racism isn’t just a US thing.
Hell, Art Speigleman’s whose Pulitzer Prize winning Maus about his holocaust surviving father had to face the uncomfortable face he was a racist.
2 Likes
Yes, our secret nazi-genes promote that behavior. When not tightly controlled by Anglo-Saxon freedom lovers we tend to plot recreating the fourth reich.
I guess with your american ancestry you get those secret urges about genociding or enslaving indigenous nomadic tribes too?
Those pictures? Propaganda to lure more foreigners into our KZ 2.0!
4 Likes
How surprising, that people who are invaded and occupied must submit to being absorbed by the invading country. So, yeah, Chinese citizenship is totally open to any ethnicity that is conquered and subjugated.
1 Like
Of course there are people welcoming them. But there has been backlash by some in Germany. It’s a minority, but its still there.
Just like in the US, most people aren’t horrible racists either.
1 Like
From your link:
As of 2010, the total number of naturalized Chinese was only 1,448 (that is to say, 507 people were naturalized between 2000 and 2010) in Mainland China, out of the population of over 1.33 billion. In 1990, there were over 3,000.
So while technically the law allows it, an assertion that immigration to China is a real thing is bullshit.
5 Likes
Generally bad things happen when one links their national culture to either race, ethnicity or religion. Especially since immigration is now the norm (and a necessity) for the developed world.
4 Likes
What now? Are a majority or a minority of germans still Nazis because of their ancestry? Are you a crypto-slaver?
It seems to me the information you have access to is seriously misreporting the situation. I am German and although I do not currently live in Germany I have friends and family across Germany and have been there twice in the last two months. Although I will be the last to pretend everything is perfect, there is no perceptible issues in regard to the acceptance of refugees and definitely no segregation.
There is some moaning and subtle hints, but generally Germany feels like a society much more at peace with itself than the UK, where I currently live.
There are organised structured programs to integrate refugees, e.g. in Berlin every school is required to take in a certain number of refugee children, to facilitate integration. There are structured language and educational programs so all in all it seems very much under control.
No, these people didn’t go to war and these people have a non-interventionist Constitution. Their ancestors went to war and the impact of that war was such that the education system and much of German society was completely overhauled. And I am speaking as the decedent of people who didn’t fit into that definition of the “master race”.
The coming decade will reveal how effective that overhaul was–having experienced benefited from that education system, I am hopeful.
I am writing in such detail, because the discrepancy between what is happening in Germany and how it is being discussed in Germany and what is being reported in the English speaking press is frightening. There is a sense that the reporting on Germany is deliberately flaming the fires–rather than informing.
4 Likes
Swiss citizen here. Most Swiss, myself included, are willing to listen to objective criticism with regard to Switzerland. You, however, simply don’t know what you’re talking about.
3 Likes
There’s also a difference between incentivizing people to celebrate their culture versus establishing rules or restrictions for citizens of a particular region of the world.
1 Like
But the guest worker programs from the 60’s to 70’s had a major glaring omission which led to a ton of trouble which only recently (from 2000) has been addressed. By eschewing citizenship at birth at the time, Germany created several generations of people who were born in the country and educated there who have no say in the society. This creates the kind of multi-generational slums and lack of integration that isn’t seen in the US or Canada. When Merkel made her infamous statement about Multiculturalism as a failure she refused to look at the country’s own role in making it so. *
*Btw This is true of all of Continental Europe, not just Germany.
3 Likes
I didn’t say there were Nazis, I said they were racists. Are you saying there isn’t racism in Germany? And to be clear, I am not saying all Germans.
That is entirely possible. By segregation, I don’t mean forced segregation, but rather the areas they housed them lead to clusters of refugees.
That’s good, and needed if you’re going to have a big influx like that. Can you point to me then some reliable numbers of the employment rate?
OK - it was a bit of a low blow, but I don’t quite understand why my point that Germany (and all of Europe) still has issues with racism is controversial or hard to believe. Racism didn’t die in the US with the freeing of slaves and the civil rights act. While it isn’t probably as rampant, this article about the lady in Switzerland is just one example that it still exists.
1 Like
We are talking Syrian refugees not Turkish Gastarbeiters here. The two are completely different in terms of social impact. and it is very unhelpful to muddy the water of the discussion.
No-one who knows anything about Germany will pretend that importing an uneducated workforce with an expectation that they will leave, as if nothing had happened, the minute they stop working is not an incredibly short sighted stupid policy.
Have you been to Switzerland?
All you people opining about what the place is supposedly like need to get a freakin’ clue.
Here’s one: a full 25% of the Swiss population does not hold a Swiss passport. If you look at the population that was recently naturalized (say within 10-20 years), the proportion of people with a migratory background clocks in at around 35%. There’s people from all over the world here. If the place were the racist beehive you make it out to be it could hardly operate as a society, could it?
But hey, I guess you “heard” somewhere that it was racist, so of course that makes it legit to be spread as fact.
Actually the stupid part was pretending they were all going to return to their original country or that they would not grow roots in a country if they stayed long enough.
Does Germany have a naturalization policy for refugees? If not, then it is a convergence of related issues.
1 Like
Yes, frequently. Have family living on the border, brother-in-law who is Swiss. Does this qualify me to have an opinion on Switzerland and its particular brand of exceptionalism?
Which funnily enough is exactly the figure I quoted in my comments above, although I understand it is more like 28% nowadays.
Maybe you should read the comments before attacking people. As to that Swiss arrogance, thank you for presenting a free demonstration.
On the having foreigners without Swiss passports, therefore we are not racist. That is so uninformed as to be painful. Just because some Serbian girl does the cleaning for you does not make you an openminded citizen of the world. Saudi Arabia has 9 Million foreign born residents to of a population of 32 Million. Surprisingly, it doesn’t make them particularly tolerant.
I am done here, please get back when you had a chance to reflect on your Swiss ways 
until that time I will restrict such discussion to my brother in law.
8 Likes
Yes, utterly idiotic and in ignorance of every historian emigration movement.
Yes, it does. The German citizenship law was overhauled in the early 2000 in response to the Gastarbeiter “problem”. The unfortunate side effect of that was that Millions of dual German Turkish citizens are propping up Erdogan with their votes.
4 Likes
A more fact based reply now (as it is related to my current line of work):
Yes … and no. Simply put: We don’t know yet.
A large part of the people fleeing to Germany are waiting for their asylum claims to be processed. Those that got their refugee status are still attending integration/language classes (length 6 month to 1.5 years).
2015 890.000 refugees arrived in Germany, 2016 it was 280.000.
December 2016 131.000 refugees got a job (job = more than 15h/week, more than 450€/month)
That’s wrong. It’s a bit more complicated. People claiming asylum in Germany are usually housed in large centers for new arrivals. After their asylum requests are processed they can claim social assistance (which includes rent) and can search for a regular residence.
Until December 2016 there was no “Wohnsitzauflage” or “Residenzpflicht”, which means they could choose where to live in Germany by themselves. Most refugees chose cities with an higher percentage of refugees already living there. They basically segregated themselves. After 01.01.2017 refugees have to stay in the state/city/region they were assigned to. This was decided to prevent further segregation and the formation of ethnic ghettos.
6 Likes
We can be thankful for the little bits of sanity, when they rear their head. 
1 Like
